Mixed feelings about that blog entry myself. Some people just can't do confrontation, and forcing them into it (or issuing ultimatums about it) isn't going to help your situation any, but hey, maybe you'll drive a friend into an anxiety attack.
On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, I don't do confrontation isn't a valid excuse for ignoring something like a few guys you know talking about how they're going to go kill some black people or something. On the third hand, the scenario in the blog wasn't nearly as bad as something as that. On the fourth hand, unless the guys really have severe social anxiety, it probably isn't much of an excuse.
Yeah, I'm not sure it necessarily applies to anyone in the actual story, but when you go from reading the Dealing with Depression thread directly to reading that post, these are the things you think of.
Maybe it's a side-effect of the crowd I hang with, but I'm starting to suffer activism-fatigue. That isn't to say that people should stop calling attention to the matter, but it makes me wonder if I'm stuck in an echo chamber, and more importantly, if the message is reaching people who can actually do something about changing the game industry. Identifying the problem is a necessary but insufficient step towards solving gender equality problems, but it's also a big problem that we've been dealing with since ... uh, I guess the beginning of recorded history (and probably even before that). So I guess the question I have is whether the game industry has changed as a result of all of this activism. There are examples at the extremes, both positive and negative, but I wonder if anything is really different on average and if it's moving in the "right" direction.
Hah; i just can't figure out how that argument was supposed to work, because... well it reads (roughly) like idk, "neutering men is not a problem because women don't have testicles" i.e. wtf difference does that make to the ones who are affected, that others aren't? Unless he means it's not a problem because only the things which affect men are srs problems, but that'd be psyduck.gif level dumb so i refuse to accept such interpretation... so, confused.
I have to assume it's another iteration of the old "well the male characters all have big ridiculous muscles and I don't complain!" argument - in other words, the inability to tell the difference between an idealized character and a sexualized or objectified one.
I can think of several bigots I've 'messaged' into submission, so I'm not getting that activism ennui just yet. Maybe it's the whole regional thing. NYC is an odd mix of liberal and conservative and in between. Most of them vote blue, but red doesn't even try to win us so that's no surprise. Ingmar Social anxiety sufferers can consider themselves exempted from my Big Book o' Judgin. Everyone else is On Notice.
Yeah, this is a consideration. I do have pretty bad anxiety about any kind of conflict. But I think some things are worth getting over that for. I think the one time in my life I've actually properly angrily insulted someone is when I came across a teenager harassing my brother's 14-year-old gay friend over facebook. I did have some moments of doubt afterwards: What if the homophobic bully was also a depressed or suicidal teenager? Should I really have told them they were a disgusting waste of human flesh? But it did seem to work in making them leave the gay kid alone. I think Aeon221 may be on to something.
That blog post made me feel awful. There have been times when I've called out sexist behaviour, expecting people to support me, to see what I saw, but they didn't. It's infuriating and depressing. Here's a story I saw a while back that made me smile. All of the people in this thread talking about having daughters or nieces reminded me of it. “I am no man”: For Zelda-playing daughter, dad gives Link a sex change It reminds me when I was a kid wishing for a game with a really cool female protagonist who could do all the sorts of things that Link could do.
It's my first time coming across that entry but I find in interesting the similar themes articulated in this one. Life is a slog, having to fight the good fight against the horde trampling in the opposite direction of ye. It's especially disheartening to see a lack of strong positive changes in the wake of how important and vital and ridiculous it is that these things are still in need of being addressed. Yea, verily I have become almost resigned to it but being an optimist I can't help but feel we're making progress when people start discussion and come to the realization and actively work to make their stand known. Even with the slightness of not buying games due to their disappointing content is sending a message. It'll probably take awhile but uh, the times they are a changing and if they can't see that and read properly then the fall will be harsh.
I don't love that entry roBurky posted either. I am generally on board with confrontation, but doing it is hard. I would not want to write off a friend because they weren't up to it.
A big part of what I find personally depressing is not knowing whether my opinions (and personal shopping habits) are having any meaningful impact. I can suffer for my beliefs (by not buying from publishers I dislike) but it's hard to know if I'm helping to change anything on a larger scale. In addition, I don't actually spend that much money on games these days, so the old "vote with your wallet" thing doesn't carry the weight that it might otherwise. It makes me wonder if I'm the target audience, and if not, why developers and publishers would care what I believe. Basically, the "money" part the equation messes everything up.
I agree, it's conflicting. I think the biggest part of this has to do with emotion. When I read that entry it seemed like she felt her safety was threatened. Here were people that she had talked to and were intimate with, people that shared the same kinds of views that she did. So in a sense, they're united by that belief. And I suppose, for her, it felt like a betrayal because of the silence being as good as assent. Not that I fault any of them for freezing (xhirst, I've been in the same sort of situation...although at the time I just let my disapproval be known and walked out rather cowardly) but when you're feeling targeted like that speaking for yourself is damn near terrifying. One, because our society is such that if you're female sometimes you're not guaranteed that your opinion is met with the same kind of respect as it would be if you were of the male persuasion. I've said in the most politest terms possible (like fucking hell, I could have been an ambassador it was that diplomatic) that I wouldn't appreciate the kind of remarks being spouted and been teased and jeered out of town. And two because it is something that matters on a deep and personal level and to have to expose yourself to that willingly takes courage. I feel like being a woman means these kinds of things have had you battle ready and burned by. So it's expected and it hurts. Her friends were probably just so surprised to be confronted with something like this that they were at odds for what to do. Because it's one thing to know that "this shit is wrong" but another thing entirely to come out and say,"hey guys, what you're doing? not cool" because it means changing the room and making people think again. And no one likes feeling like they've done wrong. AND BLARGH. I GIVE UP, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT I DON'T EVEN KNOW ANYMORE or specifically what i mean by this post. IDK. I AM GOING NOW. EXCUSE THE SLAPDASHING OF WORDS. ETA: some clarifying and formatting. But okay yeah I hope this was made marginally more readable.
It relates back to a post I made back in the hurfdurf thread. You probably don't want to go there, so I'll quote it here:
For all the pablum about the typical gamer being a responsible grown-up with a job and family, there is, at the very least, a pervasive undercurrent of young male loutishness running through video game culture. We see it in the casual (and not-so-casual -- i.e. the vicious misogynists quoted in the OP's article) sexism. We see it in the use of "gay" and "fag" as all-purpose terms of abuse. We see it in the popularity of shooters, although obviously young male louts aren't the only FPS fans out there! I don't know if it dominates the overall tone, but as this thread makes clear it is still a widespread blight, and one that defines how non-gamers tend to view us.
Abandonment by your friends in the face of douchecocknery is also pretty awful. Friends are supposed to be there when you need them. If I was being verbally abused by some slug for my sexuality and my friends just sat there and did nothing I'd be considerably irate at them. It's fine to be scared, and it's fine to not want to get up in front of a crowd and tell them you think they're all hateful assblasters. Some people just aren't cut out for performance. Assholes making hateful jokes get away with it time and again in so many offices because no one is brave enough to say they're not amused. But even a mild reproof, or a soft declaration that you don't appreciate such 'jokes' can make a difference. Again, not every one will be able to do that, especially not the targets of discrimination themselves. And that's ok. We can't really be what we're not. But for the sake of all those unfortunates stuck behind a tide of bigotry, try.
2012 has been an absolute banner year for mysogyny in gaming rising to the public eye. Hopefully it's the start of a change and not a reinforcement of that mentality.
You're not going to win the war against sexism by sexually shaming men. They only respond in kind and it is always worse.
I will respectfully disagree. While worth a chuckle, it is a reduction to absurdity and doesn't become a serious discussion. Well there's something to be said for a little hostile reaction to an oppressive hostility. However it is not helpful in answering the enormously complex question of why there is misogyny and sexism. Aggressive behavior and hormones might be part of it, but it's obviously more than a dick thing since the perpetrators of sexism are hardly men alone.
No I don't think you are in the wrong here. I'm of the opinion that if someone automatically thinks you are referring specifically to them when you raise the issue of sexism, then they probably are as sexist as they think you think they are. If your elementalist is wearing underwear to a fire fight, I don't think Guild Wars can be considered "less blatant".
That excuse makes me so angry when people whip it out as a defense of the design of Ivy, or Lara Craft, or any of the endless parade of near-naked protagonists. "I'll never look like the guys of gears of war, so it's all equal!" No. The men in Gears of War are a male power fantasy - while women dressed like Ivy, or like all the unlockable bikinis and hey-let's-see-how-little-clothing-we-can-legally-get-away-with unlockable outfits - those are male sexual fantasies. You know what they've both got in common? They're both male fantasies. In both cases, what women might want or fantasize about is never, at any point in time, considered or important.
Thank you. Guys usually don't get that distinction, but it's very obvious whenever I play videogames. It's alienating to know that the game assumes that you're a man, and that creepy, uncomfortable moment of realization happens all too often and really throws you out of the experience.
It's more than that - it's deadly obvious every time a cutscene does a slow pan down a female character's body, or a slowmo shot of her sexual attributes while she's fighting something or vaulting - the game isn't just assuming you're male, it's nudging you and winking and expecting you to be leering at the women, exactly as the designers were. It's a profoundly uncomfortable experience every time. There have been times that it's literally made me feel like I needed a shower. Unclean.
I love that #1reasonwhy has happened, but god damn, reading through all of the bile on twitter is depressing.
The character I can't accept being a "strong female" example is Bayonnetta. Yes, she's sarcastic and assertive / aggressive, but she's also a magic stripper who gets more powerful the less she wears. And the cut scene where the male lead character ignores her talking and stares at her chest to the point of crashing the vehicle doesn't work to show her as anything else than T&A either. Or the sole female angle who's 'torture' is a BDSM scene.
Ehhhh, I liked Bayonetta. The game was campy fun. However, it's a problem when she's indistinguishable from the majority of female characters in videogames. Imagine if every dude protagonist was like Dante from DMC. I want more women in leading roles that are characters first. We see precious few of those. Name me a couple upcoming games with female protagonists. It's depressing how little there are and it's souring me on this whole medium.
On one hand the whole #1reasonwhy thing is good and just and true and awareness of it should be spread. On the other hand I honestly have no faith that it will actually accomplish anything. The games industry is known to be a miserable and manifestly awful industry in myriad ways beyond just sexism, but even though everyone knows this by now it hasn't really changed. See also things like Occupy Wall Street. For example, look at Brad Wardell and his tweet/post/whatever about supporting #1reasonwhy. Despite the fact that he is clearly a sexist creeper who all but admitted to sexually harassing a woman and is currently being sued for it he appears to honestly believe he is a stand up guy fit to be some kind of mentor in the industry. It seems like Brad's is really the majority view, and I think the only way it's actually going to change is when the next generation is raised to know why Brad is a creeper and you shouldn't be like him starts filtering in more. Much like for the other ills of the industry we some places like Valve representing more enlightened thinking, but nothing anyone can do will directly make EA go away.
Gee, why don't women feel more comfortable in the gaming industry? I left off the ones where she recounts being sexually assaulted at a launch event by her husband's manager.
Ouch, I've worked with her in the past. Not an art lead, so it wasn't me =) Nor was I in either meeting, certainly hope it wasn't at the company we worked at.
I'm not sure that's a good criteria. I mean, in TOR I can raid in this: but I don't think anyone would claim that game is as blatantly sexist as Tomb Raider.
Number #1 reason why .... Because I felt I needed to pick an ambiguous user-name when I signed up for my first forum account 10 years ago. A feminine one would make me a target. Because I still feel the need to use it. Because I feel a tiny twinge of fear each time I look at my feminine steam avatar and realise that random people might see it. Because I think of articles I might write, then realise they would appear under my own name and would possibly attract crazies telling me to get raped and die in a fire. Because, out of the many and varied reaction to my various Total War guides, the second most common is a variant on "You're a girl!?". This despite my having a feminine avatar on the site where I post the guides, and being semi-famous as that frog-person-lady who writes guides. Because I've had people send me weird messages, marriage proposals, and ask for one on one coaching in a sense that make me go squick. Because every time I write a post containing the words "My boyfriend" I expect people to assume I'm a gay man. Because on those rare occasions where I've joined in with a forum topic on a subject which touches heavily on my experience as a female gamer, I usually get talked over by men who know better. That includes being told I should be flattered if some man wants to term me a "mother I'd like to fuck". Yeah. NO! Because I gave up posting in such topics years ago, judging them to be a waste of time. Because I look at Assassin's Creed: Liberations, and I desperately want to play it because it has: a)a female main character b)of realistic proportions c)wearing mostly sensible clothes Then I want to cry because that shouldn't be so unusual and I shouldn't feel grateful. Nice to see a black lead character as well. Because I've been gaming since Prince of Persia on the 286, and in far too many ways I'm still encountering the same issues. Didn't like it then, extremely sick of it now. Because there are games which flat-out make me feel as though my feminine finger should never have dared press the on switch. Games so hostile in feel that I don't make it past the first hour. Because there are others where I struggle through to the end despite feeling out of place. Because Bioware redesigned lady Shepard by committee. Into yet another make-up plastered, tedious, pin-up pop-star postergirl. Then did the same with Ashley. Where previously they had looked like vaguely realistic soldiers unless the player chose otherwise. Because I expect to be told it's nothing if I mention how much I hate this. Because I watched loads of people being told it was nothing when they did complain about this. Because I remember when the same thing happened to Joanna Dark midway through development on Perfect Dark for the N64. Because the redesigned Shepard and Joanna are very far from being the worst examples of sexualised female character design. Because they were rare and precious in their original, almost-normal forms. Because I gave up going in games shops for years thanks to being stared at like a freak.Because on one occasion a sale assistant kept talking about how much my boyfriend would enjoy the games I was looking at, despite my never having spoken to him before except to tell him that I was shopping for myself and did not want any help so please go away. Because the idiot followed me as I walked out in disgust when he wouldn't stop it, telling me about how my boyfriend would benefit from trading his old games in at the shop. Because I've seen this topic rise and fall, rise and fall, rise and fall so many times over the years. Because this year it seems to be gaining a bit more traction, same as a few other serious topics. Because it all makes me feel so very tired and old. Because I am tired of being told I am unusual. That girls don't play many games, and particularly not strategy, RPGs, action adventures and all the other genres I've been playing for half a lifetime. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but I'm tired of being special simply by virtue of my interests and gender. Point of interest: around half of the gamers I have run into in real life are female, and they are all playing the same kinds of games as I am. That was true when I had a SNES, and it's true now. Because I have felt obliged in the past to state that I'm neither fat nor ugly nor single, because that's the only picture which comes to mind when people think of female gamers. It's true - I am very normal and unremarkable in appearance. Shock horror! I'm probably a man in disguise now. Or a butch lesbian. Or something. What? Because "rape" is a common term when discussing games. No, you did not get totally raped you complete and utter moron. Men do get raped, but you know that's never in anyone's mind when they use the term in that fashion. It's just another fun way to exaggerate because lol violence against women lolz. Because I still see plenty of occasions where a games studio does something a tiny bit appreciable, such as including extra female characters, and then gets blasted by angry fans for wasting resources. Most recent example: adding several new female characters to Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed. Because when Eurogamer banned booth babes from their expo, a lot of people cried about how it was ridiculous and an over-reaction. Because sex sells, and most gamers are male, and it's just want the market wants, and if women played then everything would be pink, and men get objectivised by games too, and blah blah blah strawman, man-angst, missing the point, tired old crap, and now we've saved the world by keeping it exactly the same poor Duke Nukem with those pecks. Because I look at this topic and am relieved that it's mostly sane. Because I start reading comments on similar topics on otherwise great sites and invariably give up due to the idiot ratio. Because sexism isn't the only problem, it's just the most ... photogenic. Because I spent an hour typing this and could probably double the post's length if I thought about it for a bit. Because it's not 1 reason, it's hundreds. But it isn't a problem, it's just a mouthy minority whining for attention again. So that's ok.
The difference there is that it's a choice. There's nothing wrong with letting people choose to dress their avatars sexily - so long as both genders have equally sexified choices - though it may make people roll their eyes. The problem is when it's mandatory. When every option is a battle thong or a bikini of doom. That's when it starts getting kind of oppressive.
