Discussion in 'Debate and Discussion' started by jeffd, Dec 10, 2012.
Holy shit is it gonna pass?
Looks like it passes, then.
Holy shit, passes the house 257 to 167. Over 80 Repubs voted Yea, only a dozen or so Dems voted Nay.
Huh. That may be it for Boehner. Recall: a speaker has to get a majority of the house, not just a majority of his caucus.
So how is the speaker decided if no one gets a majority?
Edit: The answer appears to be quite entertaining.
HO HO HO.
When's the speaker vote?
Will Boehner cry?
Thursday / possibly
I can't wait to see his spray-tan run. His delicious tears will be flavored with beta carotene.
But he did. I disagree, Boehner has shown several times a desire to compromise, starting with the debt ceiling fiasco in which he tried to hammer out a deal with Obama, and then "his" people threw him under the bus. I think he was trying to negotiate with Obama again this time, and when he saw he wasn't going to be able to deliver anything, he threw it back to Obama and the Senate and promised to bring anything they passed up for a straight up and down vote in the House. He knew at that time it would be an unpopular thing to do, and probably saw the endgame at the time. And then by going along with Pelosi's public demand for an up and down vote - which he'd already promised - he pretty much sealed his fate as any kind of leader in this GOP House.
Yeah color me surprised. Boehner's displayed no willingness to buck his caucus until last night. Tomorrow promises to be exciting.
To be honest, if I'm Boehner do I really even want to be speaker any more? He's not going to be acccomplishing anything in the next Congress, his caucus is full of nihilists.... At this point I'd consider retiring and going to some private lobbyist group to collect an easy paycheck for a few years. Maybe get a job on fox news or something....
Which is a shame, because a lets-get-things-done leader would be better than a lets-stall-everything-until-they-cave-into-our-insane-demands leader.
Ya know, Boehner has really looked weary since the debt ceiling fiasco. I heard Rush interview him during that time, and he pissed Rush off by saying that not passing the debt ceiling increase was not an option and was irresponsible because it just meant paying bills the U.S. has already incurred, so the debate should only be what do we need to do to reduce the debt but not whether to pay what we've already "bought." Rush tried to get him to change his tune, in several ways, but Boehner said something along the lines of "Rush, once you've bought a new car, even if it was a dumb thing to do, you can't simply decide you don't want to pay the payments. The time to make the smart financial choice is before you buy the car. We need to talk about the future, not the past, and the debt ceiling right now is paying for the cars we've already bought." Rush cut him off shortly thereafter.
I wasn't surprised: I think Boehner has wanted to be reasonable (understand, reasonable does not mean becoming a Democrat) while representing his party, but more and more I think he realized the Tea Party power in the House was making that impossible. He knew when his "plan B" couldn't even come up for a vote that he wasn't able to overcome the wacko contingent in the GOP, and I think at that point he made his decision to do what he did, which was turn it over to Obama and the Senate and pledge to bring up whatever they passed for a straight up and down vote. He's been around long enough to see the end game at the point he made that decision, and he did it anyway, even knowing that the party would hate him for it.
As far as I'm concerned, Boehner may have come across as a loser in terms of power from all of this, but he came out a winner in my book. As did Biden and McConnell. And Obama for being a smart enough manager to turn it over to Biden.
Yeah Biden really accorded himself well on this one, as did McConnell. Originally it seemed like he wasn't even interested in trying to come up with a deal.
At this point I have no idea what the administration does. Sequestration and the debt ceiling are going to be Armageddon, and the rest of its agenda is dead on arrival in the House.
Wonkblog truly gives us the fiscal cliff narrative we all deserve..
MY WHOLE BRAIN IS CRYING
Yeah, no idea how this will play out. It will be another game of chicken, I assume, and since you get the behavior you reward, and the loonie arm of the GOP got what they wanted last debt ceiling vote by holding the baby over the well and threatening to let it drop if they didn't get what they wanted, I assume they'll do the same this time. How Obama et al respond will be pretty interesting politics.
This right here is what drives me nuts about the debt ceiling debates. Yeah, great, you've suddenly decided you need to budget. Awesome. But you don't get to come to that choice after getting your new mortgage and decide the answer is obviously to stop paying your bills. You bought something you knew you'd need to go into debt for. Congrats, now stop with the buyer's remorse shit the second the bill comes due.
Some days I feel bad for Boehner. Then I remember he's been kind of a tool while in charge, and he has totally deserved Cantor trying to shank him in an alley every time he gets the chance. Seriously, Cantor's not even secretive about torpedoing things in order to try and snag more power.
Thank you for that article, that helps a lot, and I LOVE the GIFs. :)
I like being Broken because there are enough people interested in difficult, important topics like this one to liveblog about the discussion, rumors, and voting even during putative holidays.
Interested = obsessed about political strategy for some of us, LOL! If you didn't care about the results, this would be a wonderful time for those of us fascinated with political strategy and tactics.
And, HOW CAN THEY MAKE TAX CUTS PERMANENT???
That's insane, like permamnent, as in forever?
I miss 2000.
Permanent in the sense that it would take Congress changing the law to change the tax code.
Hilarious, I didn't know that. So Boehner can't get uniform support from his caucus, but Cantor can?
We'll find out! Really all that matters is if Boehner loses (I think) 17 members of his own caucus, at that point he can't be elected Speaker. It's not clear that anyone will step up oppose him though (who in their right mind would want that job?).
BTW... I popped on over to QT3 to see what they're saying about the fiscal cliff business over there, and Huzurdaddi was being a major dick. Not only that, but a right-wing dick. He didn't use to be like that. Is that his new schtick over there, or is he just riled up in that thread?
He's become increasingly unhinged over the years. It used to be he was fairly reasonable except when you started talking environmental issues. His repeated "I'm a bus, suck my dick" stuff was just truly bizarre.
The Republican tears today are delicious. Scuttlebut seems to be that while enough Repubs do want Boehner out, they can't coalesce around a better alternative and so even the rebels expect they'll just re-elect Boehner anyway.
Also, Boehner himself seems to have devolved into high-school sniping:
I came here to link to that very article. I love that exchange. Reid's reaction is what really sells it for me. One side consumed with rage, the other just confused & kinda clueless.
BTW, that entire article is an excellent summation of the fiscal cliff negotiations. Well worth reading.
So, uh, fuck the Fiscal Cliff. It appears that due to Sandy Relief being punted to the next session, the east coast GOP are starting to go into open revolt. Rep King is on the warpath, and was making muttering noises of switching parties (note: we still kind of hate you, King. Go I-NY if anything!)
I'm going to laugh if this gains enough momentum to turn the House into a total clusterfuck by tomorrow. I'm hoping it stays enough of a clusterfuck that they can't form ranks properly for a few months and we can escape the debt ceiling bullshit by having a fractured GOP when it comes calling.
Boehner's actions truly bespeak those of a professional. Truly.
Eh, a couple of years he was my personal stalker over there. Kinda close to some things I've seen elsewhere. I'd post something like "I think Boehner has finally given up" and he'd jump in and post a paragraph of personal attacks and he'd do it on every post I made no matter what I said. It got so bad I did something I've only done one other time, and I put him on ignore. Kept that on for about a year.
On the QT3 thread I think he is trying to represent an opposing and legitimate point of view, in terms of someone trying (I think) to represent those who are conservatives and feel like the GOP caved on tax rates and other issues and got nothing on spending cuts in return. That is an arguable case, even if you don't believe it. It's just that his attempt to argue it makes no sense; the "bus" thing he keeps repeating, stating things that are false and not false in terms of interpretation, just completely ignorant, etc. It's tough trying to argue a POV on QT3 or here that is opposed to the liberal/Democratic POV, but it is really tough if you say things like "well, spending cuts are now permanently off the table."
I stopped taking him seriously after the OWS thread, to be honest. The guy had way too much invested in being right about all the little people beneath him.
I think perhaps it's just pent-up sexual frustration after Bernanke got the restraining order.
Holy cow that picture is big - jeez.
...While the arsonist is still nervously futzing with the box of matches in his pocket.
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