The M3 may have other unexpected costs. I finally sold mine and traded it in on a Prius because I was tired of spending $2200 year on 'maintenance' (yearly service + tires). That said it was probably my best sports car I've owned in terms of total package (sophistication, handling, etc.). Great car, lots of fun, just not very practical.
Yikes, that's a pretty hefty amount of dough on yearly upkeep. How much mileage were you putting on it? Do the tires wear particularly fast? In any event, I appreciate the reality check -- maintenance is something I hadn't yet accounted for in hard dollar terms. Also, I can't even imagine going from an M3 to a Prius. My partner has a Prius and while I definitely appreciate the incredible gas mileage, I am very much underwhelmed with nearly every other aspect of it.
The M3 is a great car, but having owned one in the past, BTG is right on. There are a lot of costs associated with it, being as its more tweaked than a normal BMW. And expect everything to be more expensive, as its an M. I love my 135, but there's no way I'd get the 135is, which is essentially just a 135 with some off the shelf upgrades (like the performance package upgrade), so its unlike the 335is which is a substantial difference than a 335i. Car and Driver summed it up pretty well. If you want to mod the 135 (if the 300 hp, 300 pd/ft of torque isn't enough), go with a Dinan Stage 2 chip. Doesn't void your warranty, its extremely well regarded and safe, and boosts the engine output to 355 hp and 401 pd/ft of torque. Many BMW dealers even install it (mine does, for instance). The 135 is smaller, lighter, and feels more like the e36 M3 that I used to drive, though its turbo and not naturally aspirated. Gets decent gas mileage; I average 25.2 mpg in it. The M3 is phenomenal, but heavy. Test drive both, and see what you think. You really can't go wrong with either. Or wait for 2014 and get the new 4 series coupe. It's seriously gorgeous. See...
Thanks, this is very helpful. I'm curious, though, as to why you're so dead-set against the 135is. I read that C&D piece and the main point seemed to be "it's pretty much a tricked out i for a bit less dough (oh, and bring back the 1-series M please)." I don't see any actual downside there. In reality, the main drawback seems to be that it's an incredibly rare beast on dealer lots, at least in my neck of the woods. The closest one is 200 miles away. But the 135i's in general don't seem to be very common. I guess that's a function of them being more niche than the usual 3/5/7 sedans.
What about a Tesla Model S? It's got some serious performance (even the slowest model does 0 - 60 in 6.6), and it's basically the perfect daily commuter.
So this happened recently: We're in panic mode at this point since this is our only car. We're putting off buying another until I get a job offer, but I have a feeling that this one is going to have some sort of catastrophic failure before we get to that point. To be fair to the car, though, it was only supposed to last me for 4 years. I've had it for 6 without anything super serious (thermostat failure, ball joint replacement... that's about it). We think the rear differential is starting to go tits up, plus we need to get a PA inspection on it within the next month or so and pray to the automobile gods that they don't find anything majorly wrong with it. It passed in Cali last summer though so I'm feeling optimistic that it'll hold out just a bit longer. Meanwhile, we're now casually looking for our second vehicle so we're ready to spring on something once I get an offer somewhere. Used, AWD, hatchback or wagon, under 100k miles, Japanese, Korean, or German (excluding Nissan). We found a great deal on a 2006 BMW 5-series but we're wondering if it's too good and something horrible is wrong with it. Otherwise, we haven't found much in our price range beyond various years of Subaru Outbacks. Also, we've found a ton of Nissan Cubes in the area. Are they all available because they are a fad car or are they just crap? I've driven one before and I kindof liked it, but I don't think I'd want to own one.
Consumer Reports rates the 2013 model at a 64, which is basically middle of the pack as the highest rating is 85. The lows are...not complimentary: Braking, acceleration, agility, noise, fit and finish, headlights, swing-out tailgate After a car accident a few months back that totaled our 2003 Jetta, we picked up a Certified Preowned 2011 VW Tiguan. It's 4WD, hatchback and drives like a tall Jetta. Might be a bit higher than your price range (although if you're looking at Outbacks maybe not). I actually like it quite a bit, the only downside is the gas mileage is a bit lower than the Jetta. I guess that's what you get with 4WD though (or 4motion as VW calls it)
Yeah, we've given up on getting 4WD and decent gas mileage in the same car. Whatever replaces my car somewhere down the line will probably be our good gas-mileage car, right now we're looking for something that can handle snow better than mine (though I think it handles snow JUST FINE but hubby is like "AHHH RWD IT'S ALL SLIPPIN AND SLIDIN" and I told him to go get some sandbags to put in the trunk if he's having that much trouble for crying out loud).
The M3 is a sports car and handles as such, which means the tires wear out incredibly fast. I didn't drive it super hard either, nor did I commute much, they're just soft, grippy tires that wear first. They also did the "once a year maintenance" thing, which was $800/year I think. I remember paying it off and going "Wait, it's paid off, and I'm still paying $200/month? WTF?" I loved that Prius, it was really a great car. Only reason I sold it is because I was moving across the country (again) and the cost to ship it vs. its value seemed silly so I sold it to a friend.
To be fair, it's not that much worse than the old Jetta - the Tiguan gets about 22-23 mpg on city driving.
Two primary concerns: (1) no coupe option and (2) the peppier versions are pretty steep price-wise even without options. Might be worth a look, though, as there's a dealership about five blocks from my office.
Oh I'm not deadset against it at all, just when you want the is upgrade, you're usually looking for a massive performance boost (see the 335is). The 135is isn't like that; it's a nice package with a very modest increase in performance. If the point is more performance, get it modded with the Dinan chipset; the BMW PPU doesn't do a whole lot to the driving experience from what I've read. But it is a nice package overall. And yeah, 135s by nature are actually a rare car at the dealers. I had to order my 135 to be built from Germany because I wanted (shock) a manual for it. The dealers near me only had the car in the (admittedly quite good) dual clutch auto.
The S has some polish issues and quirks. It's pure sex in a lot of ways, but it can be ridiculously frustrating as well. http://robertoconcerto.blogspot.com/2013/01/charging-as-design-problem.html
Assuming I go for the 135 (which I think is more likely), I may end up somewhere in the middle. That is, if I can find a 135i that has the options I want relatively nearby, I'll go for that. If I have to get one directly from ze Germanz, then I don't see any reason not to order the is. ps you don't see any reason the 135is couldn't be modded with the Dinan software, do you? I really don't anticipate doing anything like that, but if for some reason I become a true petrol-head down the road, it would be unfortunate not to have the ability to do so.
I think there shouldn't be a problem in moving to the Dinan upgrade later; they're both just essentially software upgrades. But you just end up paying more...since you're paying for the BMW flash (runs about 1k) and then paying for the Dinan upgrade (2k or so). See if you can test drive both the is and the i; I haven't driven the is so I'd be interested to hear if you feel there's a tangible difference.
Test drove the 135i and M3 today. Both were a lot of fun and seem like excellent cars. All notions of logic and common-sense point towards the 135i, but that M3..wow. I get the hype. What a fabulous peice of automotive engineering. Is there a support group for this kind of thing? ps unfortunately, there are no "is" models anywhere near me (closest is over 200 miles). The dealer I visisted today said they just put an order in for one and it will be in the next shipment, scheduled to arrive in a month or so. It's got all the options I want, so if I end up deciding on the 135, I might just grab that one.
I hear what you're saying - the drive train stuff doesn't get updated much, and is solid. Other thing (that ultimately come down to preferences), like handles staying popped out, charge door etc can be tweaked. Each his own though.
My concern is that the visible stuff is obviously janky, but I have no way of knowing what the invisible stuff is doing (unless, say, I get in a wreck). Don't get me wrong, the car is pure sex in a lot of ways, but that aspect of the fast and loose engineering (or so it seems) is terrifying for a motor vehicle. So if they're a bit sloppy and apathetic about things I can see, why should I believe that they'd suddenly become precise engineering perfectionists for everything else?
Well, I pulled the trigger on the BMW 135is. I'll be picking it up this weekend. I was sorely tempted by the M3, and part of me is still mourning not being able to enjoy that sublime V8, but I just couldn't square the additional expense and hassle with the fact that 90% of my driving consists of urban commuting. Plus, the 135 is a seriously fun little car.
It is sad that the M3 you drove is the last one with a naturally aspirated engine, but I agree with your choice in the end (it's the same one I made...just 135i not is). While the 135i can be a rough drive on NJ roads, the M3 is utterly sadistic on those roads...
Give a report on the car, though. Be careful to keep it at low revs for a bit...it's really hard, but that burn in period exists for a reason. Also, while the BMW warranty calls for the first oil change at 15k miles or 1 year, I got my oil changed at 1500 miles. Paid for it, but sometimes there are metal shavings in new engines you need to flush out.
Wierd situation with my car (2002 lexus IS200) On certain stretches of my commute, if I am between 80-90 km/h, it tries to shake itself to bits, and if I let go steering wheel, pulls left. So either a wheel alignment or wheel balancing issue I guess, but I can't work out why the same speeds elsewhere don't give same behaviour. I'll take it in to check tyres/ re-align wheels. Wheel alignment is a weakness of the car, I've had to have it redone twice in 3 years - just hitting a speed bump too fast can throw the wheels out of true.
And that reason has nothing to do with modern engines and everything to do with car manufacturers continuing to write their manuals the same way that a toaster manual tells you not to throw it into bath water. Full urban myth status. Metal shavings would ruin your shit. The most you will get out of a new car is a fine layer of metal "silt" on the drain plug magnet. Shavings don't suddenly pop out of machined metal just because it got hot from the combustion process, nor are they left in there when the engine is put together. A metal shaving would prevent precise seating of any number of parts and a flaw would show up in the testing phase. If people don't understand the physics going on in the engine, they'll never believe that the proper break-in procedure is actually lots of shifting and occasional high-RPM driving. An engine is not a mattress. Piston rings require heat and pressure to seat correctly, and you can't achieve that by driving at 2.5k RPM for 1,000 miles. It's only now that modern mechanics are starting to write about how the old ways of breaking in engines may actually lead to problems down the road, particularly with head gaskets losing their shit within 100,000 miles. Of course, objective information is hard to come by because nobody actually tracks what kind of break in most people do on new cars. When you buy a new car, just drive the damn thing. The only things needed to "break in" on a car are a brand new clutch, brand new brakes, or brand new tires.
This is what the dealer told us the last time we bought a car. They said that no modern car requires any sort of special "burn-in" treatment, and that we should just drive normally.
I've seen some article(s) about the myth of changing oil frequently being debunked, but I can't find them now (I've found an older one from 2010 which isn't the one I'm thinking of), what are people's opinions on oil change frequency? My Odyssey is saying I have -610 miles to go before I need an oil change...
I did mine every six months (until our move, we didn't drive frequently), and the standard for government vehicles per GSA's rules is every 7500 miles.
Funny thing about piston rings is that Lexus has something of a recall on early model IS-es due to compression failure. Our '06 has this issue and they're going to fix it even though the car has 195,000 miles. I was starting to not trust it because it would idle roughly, sometimes conk out and not start, but with this fix they're more or less going to rebuild the engine. Hope it goes for another 195,000.
Changing the oil frequently isn't going to hurt anything, but as Alligator says, every 6,000-8,000 miles is probably fine, and that's a lot less frequently than most dealers and oil change places recommend. Someone--I think it was Consumer Reports--did a test using NYC taxi cabs a number of years ago, and determined that changing the oil every 3,500 miles (which is what the general rule of thumb used to be) was effectively no better than changing it every 10,000 miles, in terms of wear on the engine.
The talk I got was basically drive it at every speed, but do all of the city stuff before busting out highway driving. Entirely to make sure everything works, not to break anything in. And the highway last just because it's the worst place for "whoops, there goes the engine"
Feel free to take Pogo's advice, Jestintime, but I would be careful to read your owners manual and the warranty and decide for yourself. The BMW 135i manual says not to exceed 4500 rpms during the break in period. When you bring your car in for service, they put your key fob in a docking port that allows them to download detailed information on engine usage. While you can debate whether you need to follow the instructions in the manual (because there is something to what Pogo says about sealing down the piston rings when you drive it a bit harder), if something happens, you're giving them an excellent reason to void your great warranty. Specific quote on the break in period from the 2013 135is manual: My warranty booklet (just pulled it out, of course it's not available online) essentially says not following the guidance in your owner's manual can result in BMW voiding your warranty or not paying for the damages that may occur as a result. Ok. Never mind a ton of 135 drivers have reported this in the past. It's a pretty common topic on the dedicated 1 series boards (1addicts, for example) and more in general, non-1 specific BMW forums (bimmerforums.com) as it's common for all BMWs. Here's a picture of what one of them found on an oil change You can call that a "fine layer of silt". Looks like to me a little more than that, but in any case, why take any risk you can avoid on a $40k+ car. I mean does it hurt to actually change the oil earlier than the 1 year/15k miles that BMW allows for a first oil change, Pogo? Note that before BMW covered oil changes in their bumper to bumper warranty, they recommended a first oil change at 1,200 miles. Now that they pay for oil changes, they say the first they cover is at 15,000. This change applied to cars made when they rolled out the warranty, but not cars from the model year before...even though they had the exact same engine. I understand when they didn't cover they were looking for additional revenue, but even still...that's a big difference. Note that they still cover the first 1M oil change at 1,200 miles. Which is the same engine as in the 135i and 135is, just slightly more uptuned. Here's a good link on info on this change from Mike Miller, who is the tech editor for Rondel (BMW's fanclub mag), and a former BMW master mechanic. Oh and:
Yeah, I have no plans on deliberately flaunting the instructions in the manual. I don't think staying below 4,500 and 100 mph is going to be an issue. However, I do need to drive it 300 miles to get it home (purchasing it out of state), and while academically interesting, this discussion is hardly helpful for my peace of mind. I'm beginning to think I should have just bought the M3 10 miles up the road. ;) So what's your takeaway? You can't trust a bloody thing that BMW says about maintenance? Not very promising.
