All-inclusive anime thread

Discussion in 'Entertaining Diversions' started by MatthewF, Feb 16, 2012.

  1. MightyMooquack Worked The System

    I recently watched through all of the available episodes of Sword Art Online, and I really enjoyed it. I've been trying to pin down exactly why.

    It is not a particularly original premise. Being trapped inside a computer system is a fairly common science fiction plot. What fascinates me, I think, is the phenomenon of science fiction and technology feeding on each other. We used to just have SF stories about virtual reality, but now there is an entire genre of SF stories about MMOs specifically. Where Second Life was an attempt to create a virtual world like we've had in science fiction, MMOs in general are the sort of virtual world which people actually use. I find it delightful that now we have science fiction stories about virtual worlds which are more grounded in reality.

    Think about that! A fictional virtual world which is more grounded in reality. We are living in the future.

    SAO doesn't just use an MMO for its setting. By forcing the trapped characters to actually play the game, it gets to explore the mental state of MMO players, and play with the actual social dynamics that emerge in a real MMO. It makes it dramatic with the obvious and somewhat obligatory device of making it a literal life-and-death game. How interesting MMO guild dynamics are will probably depend on the viewer, but if you don't care about MMOs you probably aren't going to bother in the first place.

    I gather that SAO is frequently compared to .hack, which is an entire franchise based on a similar premise and released at roughly the same time. However, I've had no exposure to it, and cannot comment on the comparison.

    I do find it interesting to draw a parallel to Neal Stephenson's novel Reamde. Again we have this theme of science fiction and reality feeding on each other. In many ways, Reamde is highly similar to his older novel Snow Crash, except where Snow Crash is a science fiction novel about the futuristic and wild technology of virtual reality, Reamde is a contemporary techno-thriller centering on an MMO. What was once wild speculation is now relatively mundane.

    The comparison to SAO is that the game in Reamde is not, itself, central to the plot. The MMO is relevant to the story because it is made economically significant. SAO derives its drama from a life-and-death struggle, where Reamde is ultimately about money.

    I suppose this just means that this relatively new premise of MMO-as-science-fiction is already as diverse as any other subgenre.

    Of course, to get really general, the plot of a hero being trapped in another world (or even just very far away) and going on a journey to get home is as old as fiction. But deconstructing a story to this degree is rarely that useful or interesting. (Merely writing the words "The Odyssey in a computer!" makes me cringe so hard, nor is it necessarily a very good comparison.) The interesting part is the drama between the characters, the greater context in which the story is told, and what it says about that society.

    In that sense, SAO is a fairly unflinching look at people being completely obsessed with MMOs. I could probably write a fairly strained essay on that thesis alone, but I don't think deconstructing the series to that extent is called for. I prefer to take it as it is.
  2. Quitch Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    Location:
    UK
    SAO is annoying because it's fifteen minutes of total dross followed by five minutes of teasing that it could get better,

    I don't think it's an interesting look into the mindset of an MMO player at all, because it changes the rules, which should change the mindset. Indeed, its weakness is that it's not spending enough time examining that, rather trotting out the usual anime whining and guilt. It's more like Battle Royale, but rubbish.
  3. Baldr I Pretty Much Live Here

    Part of what caught my interest was the initial fast pace of the series. There's a one month gap between the first and second episodes, and the first half of the episodes take place over two years. There's so much wasted time and filler crap in Japanese cartoons, and in fantasy more generally, that it was nice to see the opposite approach for once. The second half of the series changes pace entirely, and that was where I started to feel like I was watching not to see what would happen next, but because I was emotionally invested in the characters and wanted to see the end of the story.
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  4. Quitch Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    Location:
    UK
    I think the fast pace is a huge mistake. Part of the conceit is that he has a superior knowledge of the first eight levels, so it immediately skips them and any moral quandaries they might bring. It also means thus far it has been character of the week with no building of relationships at all.

    But I'm only about five episodes in.
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  5. Baldr I Pretty Much Live Here

    Maybe you're right about this series. I didn't like the second half, but the first half made me think they were just putting the pieces in place for a spectacular ending. Episode 25 is bafflingly terrible. The protagonist collects all the people who would be justified in real life murder to avoid ever experiencing that MMO again, and they willingly go with him to finish it.

    This is after the series has established that this genre of games can murder its players, alter their memories, torture them, and end free will. But apparently everyone is in line to put on the brain-fucker helmet and take a third shot at helping the hero achieve . . . wait a second. There's no reason for him to be involved in any of this. His true love is saved, mobile, and in his arms. If he's going back to that world it's because he's bored and wing-suit basejumping isn't fucked up enough to maintain his interest.
  6. MightyMooquack Worked The System

    I've decided that episode 14 is where the series ends. The second arc is just superfluous and silly, drawing out the premise far beyond its welcome. I said I like the premise, but it gets to be a little much.
  7. Anders Hallin Despondent Fancybear

    Location:
    Stockholm
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  8. Quitch Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    Location:
    UK
    I'm tempted to do a breakdown of all the ways SAO fails using episode 7 alone, but then I'd need to rewatch it. I do so love hating things though...
  9. Elyscape Already Beat BF's New Expansion

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
  10. MightyMooquack Worked The System

    I would like to clarify that I see no contradiction between thinking something is terrible and enjoying it. SAO is terrible in many ways. (Most anime is!) I also enjoyed the hell out of it. Any bulleted list of the ways in which SAO sucks promises to be highly entertaining, please feel free!

    More recently, I've been making my way through Turn-A Gundam, at this thread's suggestion. It's pretty good. I will probably finish it before my vacation is up.
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  11. MatthewF Elitist Negative Nancy

    Well, finished SAO. I thought 1-14 were fascinating looks into how the mind adjusts (or doesn't) to that sort of situation, and super creepy at the same time. There are some good laughs to be had at the MMO callouts, so if you've never played an MMO I realize it'd be lost on some people. Ep15-25 just felt like an entirely different series, and would have worked better as a sequel. You can't call it SAO anymore if it's ALO. Hyper-sexualizing the middle-school sister, giving her a brother complex, and adding King McRapey Suzou was too much for me to enjoy the series in the same way as I did earlier. That said, I loved it, even presented as a whole. Also, Yui forever. Goddamn, she was adorable.
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  12. Itzena Oh, Come On

    I wouldn't exactly call most of their list 'yuri', to be honest. Shoujo with yuri subtext, perhaps, and that is really stretching it for some of those. Also not putting Utena at No 1. in any list is a crime against humanity for it is The Greatest Anime In The History Of All Things Ever.

    IMO, natch.
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  13. Anders Hallin Despondent Fancybear

    Location:
    Stockholm
    Probably because there is only so much yuri anime to go around, and Erica usually goes for her (weird definition of) quality over 100% yuri content.
    Found a quote from an earlier top ten anime list when browsing through this: http://okazu.blogspot.se/search/label/Top Ten Lists
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  14. Ingmar Armchair Designer

    Location:
    California
    Somehow going back and reading/watching Ranma 1/2 has gotten me into a 'read the entire ouevre of Rumiko Takahashi' project. So far I finished Ranma, read all of Urusei Yatsura, Maison Ikkoku, Ningyo Shirizu, and am maybe 2/3 of the way through InuYasha. Just Rin-ne, some one shots, and One Pound Gospel to do after that.

    Maybe I'll make an "Ingmar Explains" post in the Bridge forum or something afterwards.
  15. Quitch Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    Location:
    UK
    So Robotics;Notes is pretty lame.
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  16. Demon G Sides Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    Introduced my friend to Samurai Champloo (He's not an anime guy), and we watched the entire thing over 3 sessions. Needless to say it was a hit. He likes the samurai era stuff, and he really liked the animation.

    Any suggestions for other shows in the same vein/style? I was thinking baby steps to Samurai 7, possibly, but I'd rather vet that one myself before making him watch that.
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  17. Anabanana Hatoful Pigeon

    Location:
    DIS PEAR
    I've never actually watched it, but maybe Cowboy Bebop? If it's samurai stuff he likes though, you can't go wrong with Rurouni Kenshin/Samurai X.

    EDIT: How could I forget? Definitely give Afro Samurai a try. It's like a grittier version of Samurai Champloo and the lead is played by Samuel L. Jackson.
  18. MatthewF Elitist Negative Nancy

    Kenshin. Guardian of the Spirit. Hmm... oh, definitely Blade of the Immortal. Samurai 7. Sword of the Stranger (movie, but so amazingly animated and enjoyable). That's all I got.

    edit: Try starting him off with Sword of the Stranger. It's a one-shot movie, but it embodies a lot of Samurai Champloo. Next, Samurai 7. Next, Blade of the Immortal. After that, Guardian of the Spirit. Finally, the epitome of all samurai anime: Kenshin.

    edit 2: I remember watching Guardian of the Spirit as a fansub, and it was named Guardian of the Sacred Spirits. I don't know if they changed the name during translation, though.
  19. Anabanana Hatoful Pigeon

    Location:
    DIS PEAR
    Oooh yes, seconding Blade of the Immortal - I've only read some of the manga though, mind you. And then maybe Samurai Deeper Kyo, but I hear the anime adaptation was kinda bad.
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  20. MatthewF Elitist Negative Nancy

    Sadly, the Kyo anime was pretty crap :(
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  21. MatthewF Elitist Negative Nancy

    The Blade anime is excellent. Don't miss it.
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  22. Quitch Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    Location:
    UK
    I'm sorry Robotics;Notes, I tried, but episode 8 was just so rubbish I can't go on.
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  23. Demon G Sides Keeper of the Elemental Materials


    I wish Bebop was on Netflix, as that was my immediate firs thought on what to show him next. After some careful prodding, I got him to admit to actually watching and enjoying Gundam (by careful prodding I mean I bludgeoned him to death about how awesome Endless Waltz is and he said "Oh yeah I know about Heero!"), so at least he's not entirely out of his element as I thought.

    Thanks for the suggestions! He started watching Afro Samurai on his own completely out of nowhere (His exact text was "Yo, Sam Jackson's the shit in Afro Samurai. I wish I had known the softcore anime porn was coming though"). I just watched the movie myself a few days ago, and was pleased at the badassery displayed by Afro.

    I am hesitant to show him Ruroni Kenshin, only because of the art style and how it's slightly dated compared to something like Champloo. I think he would be able to forgive it in Bebop's case due to the futuristic setting, and he seems to be starting to really get into the anime thing.

    Thanks again!
  24. Afti Cuts Down The River, Not Across The Road

    Now he just needs to watch a Gundam series that isn't shitty!
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  25. Demon G Sides Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    We can no longer be friends.
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  26. MatthewF Elitist Negative Nancy

    To be fair, it is pretty shitty. There are far better Gundam series out there, and for what it's worth, you might as well get him to watch Gundam 00. It's really just a much better version of Wing (and it's in HD!).
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  27. Quitch Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    Location:
    UK
    Bebop sucks, why would you make anyone suffer through that? Just go watch Firefly instead.

    EDIT: Added a link to provide context
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  28. jordantigers Beardy Magnificence

    Location:
    ζ*'ヮ')ζ
    Is there no enjoying both? Also while typing that sentence, my mind made me imagine Nathan Fillion's voice on Spike. Weeeeird.
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  29. Demon G Sides Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    I love 00. Gundam Wing was my very first Gundam. It's got it's own sentimentality value and I really don't care if people don't like it (I don't really care for most of Amuro stuff besides Char. Char saves all. Sazabi4life.), I've got a GN-X-603T sitting on my desk right in front of me :)

    I also like G Gundam and most people I've talked to don't like that either. I'm a goofy Gundam fan. I really enjoy the mass produced suits more than anything else.
  30. MatthewF Elitist Negative Nancy

    I recently went back and finished G Gundam, and while it's totally DBZ meets giant robots, I actually enjoyed it for what it was. It'd been the only Gundam series I never finished, so I guess I had to close that chapter out. No regrets!
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  31. MatthewF Elitist Negative Nancy

    Have you watched Zeta? It's way up there at the top.
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  32. Afti Cuts Down The River, Not Across The Road

    I can't even tell you what's going on in Wing. Well, beyond lol TOTALPACIFISM. It's just so generic.

    Incidentally, the whole thing with most of the AUs where everything would be fine if we could get along and be friends really grates. And it completely misses a big part of the point of UC - yes, war sucks. War is brutal, violent, and unglamorous; there's no honor there.

    However, it's also a necessity sometimes; war is bad, but sometimes the only way to solve a problem is by shooting all the crazy assholes until they die. No one expects they can redeem Gihren Zabi. Scirocco doesn't get offered a second chance; he gets impaled.

    It's a far more nuanced take on things than the standard "war is bad, m'kay"/"MACHINEGUNS AND EXPLOSIONS FUCK YEAH" dichotomy. War is a terrible thing, something to be avoided if at all possible - but something which, sometimes, can't be avoided. For all the awkwardness of Newtypes as a concept, they do one very important thing - they totally rebut the notion that we wouldn't fight if we could all understand each other. The Newtype flash can result in either an intimate connection - or an attempt to kill each other. Not all worldviews can be reconciled. Sometimes, understanding just deepens the divide.
  33. MatthewF Elitist Negative Nancy

    Char's Counterattack.

    *drops mic*
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  34. JoshV Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    That's why I dug the 08th MS team, as most of the fights involved relatively grounded mecha. It still had a big giant floating beam thing -- but it didn't quite feel as super mecha hero hour as most of the Gundam shows.
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  35. Rot Already Beat BF's New Expansion

    Location:
    Here
    I finished watching Jormungand somewhat recently and enjoyed it immensely. I don't think I've ever followed a story where the main character was a child soldier so that was interesting.

    I'm currently watching Zetsuen no Tempest. It's got a lot of Shakespeare references especially for The Tempest (though I've never read that one so I'm not certain). I'm liking it a lot though I'm not quite sure why. Is it the peculiar friendship between the main male characters? Or maybe it's the giant trees that may or may not bring about the end of the world? The characters are a lot of fun so I can only hope that the ending won't be a huge disappointment and I'll finally find out who killed Aika goddamn it.
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  36. MatthewF Elitist Negative Nancy

    Is anyone else following Kingdom? I've really enjoyed the last few episodes, and despite the ridiculousness of a single man swinging a sword/spear and knocking a dozen soldiers 20 feet into the air, I like Shin (Xin, I guess). The chess-like battle plans are great, as well as watching Shin rise to Hundred-Man General. As far as I see it, Shin ends up in a final battle against the Empire, wins, and basically becomes a god. The kid gives no fucks. Ever.
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  37. Anders Hallin Despondent Fancybear

    Location:
    Stockholm
    Shin Sekai Yori remains, between the monster rats, the lobotomy, the Impure Cats, and the entire organisation of their society, a thoroughly creepy show. I like it.
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  38. Afti Cuts Down The River, Not Across The Road

    I'm convinced that Char's Counterattack was written while Tomino was drunk. Worth watching for gorgeous animation and fantastic mecha design, but it doesn't make a damn bit of sense, and it's woefully inconsistent next to the other UC stuff.

    The central plot point is "Char wants to drop a big rock on Earth, let's give him a big rock so he'll be persuaded not to do that".

    There're a lot of interesting elements, but it really doesn't hold up as well as a lot of the other UC stuff. Everything is either gold or shit; there are no middling elements.
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  39. MatthewF Elitist Negative Nancy

    Honestly, Victory is my favorite UC series. I can't put my finger on why, but it was just absolutely riveting. I liked the main character, supporting cast, and story (and wacky mech designs). I liked the design of the V, and its modularity. Legs get blown up? No problem! Detach the broken part and auto-dock with a new one. Really cool stuff.
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  40. Afti Cuts Down The River, Not Across The Road

    When Victory works, it's hands down the best Gundam series. Brutal, oppressive atmosphere coupled with great characters and fabulous mech design.

    Its biggest problem is that, sometimes, it decides it'd rather be ZZ, and we get gems like "HE BIT MY BOOB". These are somewhat jarring, and really hurt the drama.

    Man, we need a Victory Gundam series that can ditch the broken parts and dock with new ones. Because if you pulled out the awkward slapstick, it'd be something else. I'm pretty sure it might make you want to cut yourself, but still.
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