Angry Israel/Palestine Ranting Thread.

I really don't buy the narrative that Israel's formative years and existentialist worries put it on a "high road" to the present nightmare of Netanyahu, Lieberman and Yishai. One can certainly trace threads backwards to this or that noxious seed or fatal flaw but there's a shitload of very contingent political, social, diplomatic and military history such a narrative would paint over.

True enough.

I don't get it.

But that movie was awesome, and the most accurate depiction of CT operations and operatives I am aware of.

It was a dark absurdist comedy. I found it hilarious. My wife was merely horrified.

(That is from Four Lions, right?)

Yep

I had thought it was from Monty Python. D'oh!

See? EXACTLY THE SAME.

brettoria makes a convincing argument.

Hey, if Lieberman wants to use the example of the partition, and later annexation, of Czechoslovakia then I would agree that it's perfectly fine as long as you picture Israel playing the part of nazi Germany and the Palestinians play the part of the Czechs.

If this were a musical, I would find it poignant how slowly yet surely, the Israeli government became that which it had feared the most. Some parts I would find rather heavy handed and transparent, such as the ghettoization of an entire people. In terms of telegraphing the punch, it would be as if Marlon Brando pointed out that he is putting on his father's hat before he savages Blanche DuBois in Streetcar. I might also find the construction of a great wall to be technically an anachronism that signals out Germany fairly, but on a difficult to juggle point. The rather obvious choice for this number, given the way things are going on Broadway these days, where you can't get the time of day without a tie in to an established property, would be a duet between an Israeli and a Palestinian set to David Bowie's Heroes as the eleven o'clock number. I would leave it to English majors to point out and assess the meaning of the fact that the upbeat opening number is reprised during every reprisal against the Palestinians, although in a minor key and with decreasing enthusiasm.

Unfortunately, this is real life, and the Israeli people are practicing Apartheid politics against millions of innocent people while the United States forces the rest of the planet to stand by and watch it happen. There is no good God what would endorse the beliefs, actions, or demands of Avigdor Lieberman. The only conceivable motivation for that man, if he does believe in an afterlife, is to earn himself a place in hell as close as possible to Adolf Hitler so that he might punish him personally. That would also make a nice movie. Unfortunately, there is no Hell and there is no screenplay. There are just vile racists taking away people's lives and families for a reason worse than none at all.

But! But! Rockets!

I used to argue with Flowers over whether the Apartheid label was accurate for what Israel did.

I don't care enough to argue with him anymore. :( Thanks, Avigdor Lieberman, you shitfuck.

That's odd. Changing your opinion based on facts on the ground? I'm so confused. THIS IS NOT THE AMERICA I KNOW!

The facts on the ground changed, and since I'm a commie flipflopper, that means I was allowed to change my opinions to match.

I'm too conscious of the "apartheid" rhetoric being a part of the longstanding "Zionism is racism" school of trenchantly anti-Israel rhetoric to ever be comfortable with it, but I'm not keen to rehash that discussion while the main topic of conversation is the latest enormities from Netanyahu or Lieberman or Yishai, busily destroying the futures of Israel and Palestine.

Freewheeling judgements about "the Israeli people" or "Israel" as totum pro parte stand-ins for Netanyahu and company also stick in my craw, but again it's apt to be a depressing thing to dicker about since a large number of people in Israel are in practice voting for the fuckers.

Of course. Rules are for the small people.

Turns out Lieberman has, in fact, chosen to resign after taking a few hours extra to think about it.

Hoepfully this is an opportunity for some sanity to slip back into Israeli politics.

Ahahahaha. That's a good one.

First, politics is never sane, second, this is Israel.

You never know. I've met many Israelis that are awesome people. Of course, now that I think about it, I met all of them outside of their homeland. Maybe that should tell me something.

There are, no doubt, tons of awesome and inspiring people in Israel. Some of the peace initiatives there are really amazing, heart-warming stuff. They only need to be slightly outnumbered, though, for their voice to count very little in the political sphere, and the amount by which they are outnumbered is, sadly, not really slight.

I have family in Israel that I love a great deal. Some of them, however, are rabidly racist, however, and most back Israel in its fight against the Palestinians.

Tragic madness. So many in Israel have apparently, judging them from their own words, unwittingly become that which they most abhor.

Why didn't Tim Partlett make it over here? Discussions about Israel used to be his bread and butter.

Tzipi Livni may replace Liebermann as foreign minister.

Bonus 1200 settlement expansion announced. Apparently the Grover Norquist moment being demanded of Netanyahu is that he outright repudiate the 2 state settlement. You know, more than policy and deed actually have already.

Even the article itself was more along the lines of "Livni won't rule out an extreme improbability that the weirdness of Israeli cabinet-making makes theoretically possible." So, straining the definition of "may" pretty hard.

Re: 1200 and upping the upped-upped-upped-ante of one-statist annexationism, what can one say but fuck.

Jeffrey Goldberg blogged his response to email he received on Hagel's nomination for State. Guy must have the world's most radioactive mailbox these days between getting it both ways on Israel-Palestine and the 2nd Amendment stuff. Anyway, partly reposting because of some statements made in his responses:

Emphases added, sentiment agreed-with.

It's an intended pun; there were "new Hegelians."

" I think Israel is heading down a dangerous path, toward its own, eventual dissolution, because it refuses to contemplate even unilateral half-measures that could lay the groundwork for a Palestinian state."

Coincidentally, this statement is also applicable to the gun control debate with a few noun changes.

Glad to know I wasn't alone in that. :)

Pariah status is well under way but I wonder how long it will take for Israel to achieve apartheid-South Africa levels of international condemnation. I was thinking decades but considering how fast Israel is lurching towards racism-as-policy maybe Netanyehu can get there within ten years.