Bartlett's Quotable Game Developers: A Work in Progress

Discussion in 'PC/Console Game Discussion' started by Bucky Carooe, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. Charles Despondent Fancybear

    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    There are Japanese companies who are being progressive with game design but from everything I know within the industry, the core issue at hand is an implicit assumption that change is dangerous because japanese gamers do not want change. You can actually find quotes like this all over, from almost all high profile japanese game designers.

    From Software is definitely a standout, but ultimately they are just as stuck in their ways. If you look at stuff like Armored Core, they've iterated the franchise to the point where it is nearly its own reductio ad absurdum. Still not really sure how they managed to make the Souls games, but most definitely they were heavily influenced by western RPGs.

    Other companies like Capcom and Squeenix are trying to evolve by buying out and using a lot of western development, but trust me when I tell you that they are still trying to enforce their calcified ways and designs onto those developers.

    That being said, it is true that a lot of similar arguments can be leveled at big publisher development in the western hemisphere, but it is ironically sourced from a polar opposite problem: Japanese publishers are stuck in the past, assuming that gamers want nothing new when there is evidence to the contrary, whereas western publishers won't make anything new for fear that someone might not like the game.
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  2. roguefrog Level 90 Paladin

    Location:
    San Diego
    I can probably count the number of Japanese games I've played in the last few years on ONE HAND. Dark Souls, Dragon May Cry, Super Mario Shine Get Galaxy 5 and maybe a couple others. Suffice is to say I play very few of them nowadays vs the earlier years when the console space was dominated by them and western studios made the cutting edge PC games. It was a grand old time.
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  3. Quitch Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    Location:
    UK
    Is that related to the success of the 360? Suddenly you have a successful platform which has a minimal presence in Japan, so there's no longer a need to appeal to that market.

    Or not. I don't follow that scene.
    Hanacker likes this.
  4. kerzain Beardy Magnificence

    Location:
    Job 3:26
    Although this thread seems to be for ridiculing Game Developers with foot-in-mouth disease, I don't really see anywhere else to put this, and I think it's notable for its candor nonetheless. John Smedley is the president of Sony Online Entertainment. SOE are the developers for Planetside 2, the game this message refers to.

    I approve:

    ps22.jpg
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  5. JoshV Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    Heh, except by tweeting it, the scumbag gets more exposure to his site than he deserves. Unless of course some anonymous type group goes and destroys his site, in which case I withdraw my complaint.
    Hanacker, Elyscape and AaronSofaer like this.
  6. kerzain Beardy Magnificence

    Location:
    Job 3:26
    Yea, the same thought occurred to me, and my only explanation is that the same people who would be directed to the hacker's site by this tweet might think twice about buying a hack/aimbot/whatever that Sony is already aware of and capable of dealing with. So by directly acknowledging the site Smedley could also be telling any other would-be aimbotters that it's just not worth their time to give their business to that site/hacker/whatever, or any other site in general.

    I guess it's all about setting an example.
  7. Hanacker Armchair Designer

    If you have a PS3, you should play Tokyo Jungle, yo.
    Zekedms likes this.
  8. Thoro Beardy Magnificence

    Location:
    More like Snoreway
    Is that the new Devil May Cry/Dragon's Dogma mashup game I've been hearing so much about?
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  9. roguefrog Level 90 Paladin

    Location:
    San Diego
    Yes, Dragon's Dogma. I've played Tokyo Jungle actually.

    I'd say PC developers switching to make console games changed the whole scene coupled with the growing number of players. This dates back to the first Xbox. Simply surmising, I'd like to think no one was really trying to appeal to the Japan market except for Japan. Any appeal from the west being merely a symbolic gesture since Japan had become so dominate after American's mid 80's video game industry crash.

    I have to say it is quite fun to see Japan making games that try to appeal to us!
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  10. Dean Despondent Fancybear

    Location:
    Cthulhu territory
    I just tried going there and it isn't a registered domain, or the whole thing went belly up, so either he didn't post the real url, or he somehow got it taken down first.
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  11. kerzain Beardy Magnificence

    Location:
    Job 3:26
    Though I haven't tried to visit the site (I just assumed I'd get a virus), there's a ton of Youtube clips attributed to that person/site/group/whatever.
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  12. MartinL Level 90 Paladin

    Location:
    Paris
    David Cage is so damn pretentious and stupid, it hurts. I mean he might have a point if he didn't produce one of the most cliché-ridden and badly written game of this generation... But come on, Dave, look in the mirror.

    I wonder what Godard or Truffaut would think of Heavy Rain. I really do.

    Cage doesn't seem to get that if the press was more analytical, instead of receiving the heaps of praise Heavy Rain got, the writers would have torn him a new one.
    Hanacker, Makai, Marcin and 3 others like this.
  13. Matthew Gallant Despondent Fancybear

    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Truffaut would have retroactively changed the title of his most famous film to The 400 Shauns.
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  14. Lizard_King Already Beat BF's New Expansion

    Point of order: Cage is not a game developer. He is farther away from it than someone who makes choose your own adventure movies, as he actively seeks to undercut everything that is game-like about games. The "lifelike" qtes are a knife in the back of anyone who has ever tried to do something evocative with mechanics, and the way he can confidently talk about the quality of his writing is an insult to anyone who can read a book. Any book. Odds are good you'll get something better.
    Hanacker, Zekedms, Adam B and 5 others like this.
  15. Charles Despondent Fancybear

    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    David Cage, while I agree with a lot of his points, is one of the people I hate most in games: The people who want to make movies but aren't good enough, so try and do it with games because the standards are lower. But like LK said, he's not a game developer, he's not trying to make games. Cage may be right, but he's right for the wrong reasons.
    Hanacker, Zekedms, Adam B and 8 others like this.
  16. Shake Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    Location:
    Portland
    John Walker at RPS has a pretty good rant on Cage.

    "Throw enough batshit at the crazywall, see what sticks."

    E: quotes are fun

    "But he is not the Pied Piper gaming should be following, unless we all want to drown in a river of quick-time events and Indigo Children."
  17. Kalle Despondent Fancybear

    Location:
    Sweden
    I still think that the diner scene in Indigo Prophecy was really awesome for it's time. Then the game descended into madness and zombie-sex and alien light creatures but there was a hint of something great there.
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  18. Charles Despondent Fancybear

    Location:
    Toronto, ON
  19. Lizard_King Already Beat BF's New Expansion

    Well, there's one fun bit over here:
    I really like the effort that goes into being a game developer (allegedly), and still regarding this as a question where "technology" is enabling the "better pen" to write a better book, and that being analogous to the engine in a game. The metaphor is appalling in its own right. It also shows what Cage thinks in terms of the role that mechanics and technology *AND* story play in the actual creation of game experiences. I mean, it's not just that he doesn't understand what's interesting about old movies, or that he's simply got no taste in terms of writing and the actual construction of good writing (hint: it has little to do with the pen). It's this complete detachment from actually developing a game as a game that makes him such a magnificent fraud.
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  20. Dean Despondent Fancybear

    Location:
    Cthulhu territory
  21. Royal Fool I Pretty Much Live Here

    Lost Planet is one wonderful example. It was intended as game for western audiences, which is why it features the following:

    - Protagonist that's based on a Korean pop star's likeness
    - Absolutely bonkers control scheme
    - Nonsensical storyline
    - Weird gameplay mechanics such as a constantly depleting energy bar that is your life, fuel and ammo

    I didn't end up hating the game, but at times it was frustrating to play through.
  22. quatoria Beardy Magnificence

    Which is why you should play it in co-op, as god intended, and enjoy the craziness, the three-person mecha, and fighting monsters big enough to swallow you whole and have the combat continue inside of them.
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  23. JoshV Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    LP2 was one of those games, that if it had been handled just a little bit better, would've been amazing.
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  24. quatoria Beardy Magnificence

    Dude, it had robots with laser chainsaws. It had you do a boss battle via three person train artillery! It WAS amazing!
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  25. JoshV Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    It had so many little problems though, that kept it from being amazing for me. I had a good time, but it could've been so much more.
  26. UnSub Armchair Designer

    MODESTY ISN'T ONE OF THE EIGHT VIRTUES

    “But other than a few exceptions, like Chris Roberts, I’ve met virtually no one in our industry who I think is close to as good a game designer as I am. I’m not saying that because I think I’m so brilliant. What I’m saying is, I think most game designers really just suck, and I think there’s a reason why.”

    ---

    “And every designer that I work with—all throughout life—I think, frankly, is lazy.”

    - Richard Garriott, on why he thinks the old stuff better than the new stuff
    Mapledaroni, Zekedms, Sjofn and 11 others like this.
  27. fadeaccompli Magister Mundi Elyscape

    That was a hilarious interview for its sheer lack of content. "I'm a great designer, because I'm a great designer! Because I do great design. You can tell, because those other people suck at design. And I do not. Conclusion: great designer."
    Hanacker, Zekedms, Sjofn and 9 others like this.
  28. BlueBean I Pretty Much Live Here

    Location:
    Washington
    I can't wait to see how his Shroud of the Avatar game turns out. I'll keep the popcorn ready.
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  29. fadeaccompli Magister Mundi Elyscape

    I am breathless for the reviews.
    Hanacker, Zekedms, Randissimo and 2 others like this.
  30. Charles Despondent Fancybear

    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    And now I have no heroes left.
    Hanacker likes this.
  31. fadeaccompli Magister Mundi Elyscape

    Now I kinda feel bad about being so amused by that interview.
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  32. Not One Of Us Worked The System

    The best heroes are dead heroes.

    [IMG]
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  33. mashakos Roughly Touched

    aw, that's unfair. GRiN was a good studio, they didn't go out of business because they sucked.
    Hanacker likes this.
  34. Kunikos He Hate Me

    Location:
    Seattle Eastside
    Just to refresh my memory of why I don't think it'll be any good I went and watched the Zero Punctuation review of Tabula Rasa again. Then I thought it wasn't nearly as mean as it should have been.
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  35. BlueBean I Pretty Much Live Here

    Location:
    Washington
    I've noticed, that after the CoH shutdown, some people who've jumped on the hatetrain have now reframed the failure of Tabula Rasa as having been all NCSoft's fault for forcing him to release before it was ready and squandering his Vision. =P

    Gamers have really crappy historical memories.
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  36. UnSub Armchair Designer

    There was a lot of talk in some channels that NCsoft didn't support Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa enough, which is why those titles failed. If only they'd gotten out of Garriott's way, he'd have truly been able to deliver something special to gamers.

    Yeah, well...

    [IMG]
  37. SqueakyFoo Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Auto Assault failed because it was a terrible game from the word go. "It's like WoW, but not as good, and all the orcs and elves have been replaced with CARS!" is not a good idea for a game.

    I was in one of the very early betas for the game, and I couldn't even be bothered to attempt to playtest it, as the whole concept of the game was just that bad.
  38. JoshV Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    And worse, it killed off any hope of a true Car Wars type MMO. Hell, I'm really surprised that their isn't an World of Tanks style F2P I-76 style game.
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  39. pallas Roughly Touched

    Why don't you tell Wargaming NA about it? Or start a petition?

    They already have a land based vehicle combat engine, it wouldn't be more complex to make then their other titles.
    Hanacker likes this.
  40. JoshV Keeper of the Elemental Materials

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