Cleve Blakemore presents: Grimoire (an Indiegogo project)

Only ancillary dungeons were randomly generated actually. There were aspects of the games that were unpolished, with Daggerfall especially often being heralded as one of the buggiest games of all time. But the sheer ambition behind the various gameplay systems of both Arena and Daggerfall was quite something else, and this is something that gradually faded as the series made its transition onto consoles and a progressively more casual gaming audience.

HHR, have you played Legend of Grimrock?

Daggerfall only has 12 dungeons, including the tutorial, if we ignore the "ancillary" pseudo-randomly generated content.

Skyrim has about 150 hand-crafted dungeons, most of which have a small backstory completely separate from the main narrative. You're right, there's hardly any ambition in modern games at all!

Please go back to RPG Codex.

Tedious busywork is not the same thing as depth. The number of old PC RPGs with legitimate depth versus a bunch of technical snafus and design quirks you had to spend hours learning to work around is vanishingly small. Gaming is infinitely better today due to the streamlining and elimination of bullshit that has become a hallmark of modern design philosophy.

There's some stuff from the old days I miss, but a lot more I don't. People who pine for things like Grimoire seem to me more like people who are just upset that gaming has become accessible to the masses, and would prefer it to be their own private little world where people who know all the names of the NFL teams are not welcome.

Daggerfall? Seriously? For real? Interesting in its day, but compared to Skyrim it's "objectively", to use your word, a pile of junk.

What I'm learning from your posts, HHR, is that you hate games and don't like playing them.

TLDR: cars that require a crank to start instead of electric starters aren't more "hardcore" or "in-depth", they're just _shittier_.

This is the Codex audience he was speaking to there after all, or as Bill Dungsroman put it:

"For those not familiar with the RPGCodex, it’s where you go if you’re looking for a hefty dose of Troika/Black Isle/Fallout 1 & 2 team fanboyism and wayward Bethesda hate wrapped in homophobia, racism and misogyny (often involving poorly-veiled personal issues)."

Don't ever quote those fucking idiots here again, incidentally. The Codex isn't some awesome hardcore tell-it-like-it-is haven for SURRIOS RPGers, it's a cesspit. Then again so are most RPG forums (NMA, Bioware).

Exhibit A: They give Cleve the time of day and then some. You're taking the word of a man who claims to be a superhuman Aryan apocalypse prepper. I hope he charges $100 for his game and all of you dolts buy it day 1.

Also Daggerfall was so boring it made my fillings hurt

Sorry but the whole 'complexity equals depth' nonsense annoys me to the extent of trampling better burns.

Let's also not forget how ridiculously broken it was. Daggerfall had some neat ideas, but by and large Bethesda has kept and iterated on the ones that worked, and relegated the ones that didn't to the dustbin. And there was a lot of stuff in Daggerfall that didn't work. As an example of the great glory of oldschool games, it's an odd choice.

Don't get me wrong--there are some things I miss about oldschool games, and I often enjoy it when developers try to recapture that (Legend of Grimrock was one of my favorite games of last year). But I have a very hard time believing that a literal raving lunatic is going to produce anything that's worth playing. Someone else can be the guinea pig on this one, assuming that Grimoire ever comes out, which it won't.

Pretty sure HHR has volunteered himself for that.

But it seems like he is going to say that it is great independent of the actual quality.

I'm sure he will be very objective.

Sort of a moot point, really, because those Codexers clearly didn't clap hard enough to save Tinkerbell.

could we stop talking about the Codex please? It gives me... flashbacks.

Not to mention that HHR is even too much of a moron for the Codex. It's hilarious the amount of slack you're giving him in this thread and others.

Are you getting flashbacks of Fallout 3 discussion on Qt3 back in like... fuck was that 2005 or something? Oh, the hilarity, with whatshisface and whatshisname going at it. Good stuff.

HHR is going on my list of things I love about being broken.

I liked that one better, because there were a handful of idiots who came in, who then went through darwinian selection for the apex idiot position. Here it's just the one import, so there's no selection pressure for the niche. Just not as dramatic.

So, where is that demo? Inquiring minds want to know.

It's still re-re-re-compiling. These things take time!

Dude, he's only been working on it for 17-18 years - demos take time! And since he's only had a couple of decades to work on it, don't expect it to be very good at this point. (Of course, only crossdressing gay people will not like it - RuPaul is such a gaming critic.)

Under the pile of cinder blocks Cleve pulverized with his bare fists.



lol people are going to buy his game

lol people think he's actually going to finish it

no, I'm getting flashbacks to when the Codex was my primary forum on the net and how I even moderated it for a short short bit.

I'm truly sorry. Were you concussed repeatedly at the time? It's just that I'm struggling to think of posters who came out of the Codex who didn't seem like they'd been repeatedly concussed and should probably have been seeing a doctor instead of posting anywhere. Are you doing okay now? Any dizziness or blurred vision?

I'm mostly fine. I joined in 2003, don't even know why anymore, and that was pretty much my only gaming forum until 2007, when i switched to qt3. I... I don't want to talk about it.

More like

lol people have already paid for his game

lol people think that they will eventually see some return on that investment

Shit happens. I was once an active NoMutantsAllowed member! No, really! I was Bozar Boy. It's the second forum I joined after a...sigh...Farscape forum. Third was OMM, where I found my inner asshole (which is really my outer asshole, I essentially just synched my assholes).

You probably thought that if you were self-deprecating about it, no one would make a big deal of this. You were wrong. lulz

No but seriously Farscape owns.

Look at you, drag queen. A pathetic creature of Gears of War, ranting and swearing as you mock at my Indiegogos. How can you challenge a perfect, racist Neandertal?

I began message board life over at Bioware discussing NWN. Good god was that a shameful five years. Then I found Qt3 and subsequently Broken Forum. It seems many of us share a dark past...

The NWN message boards are a dark past? I came up from Usenet, that sinister and primordial realm where the trolls roamed free and feared neither man nor moderator. There were no Likes there, only an unending darkness and the wailing of the damned.

Some spiffy ASCII signatures, though.

I too came in from Usenet; I recognize you (and a couple of other folks around) from there. If memory serves you were more active over in the strategery section, as opposed to csipg.rpg (which was my preferred hangout).

Queen Jeff spent the better part of a year trying to claim I was one of his alts. Might have been longer.

I hung out in both places (though I probably spent more time in csipg.strategic), and also some of the big tabletop rpg groups (rgf.misc and rgf.advocacy).

Also some truly inspired lunacy like alt.pave.the.earth.

Chrome moon! Everybody loves a chromed moon!

Everybody thought I was Martinho on f.s., or did so to spin me up. Alt wars were so much "fun" :/

I wish I could remember what I did with the money I returned Daggerfall for. Another game? Maybe. Pizza and beer? Also possible.

Strangely archive.org's history talks like they should have 1996 crawls, but I can't find any from pre-1998.

I can still hear the sounds of the bats in Daggerfall. I will be on my deathbed and if someone mentions Daggerfall, I will die hearing those fucking bats.

Oh, and the inn music. Fuck that 8-bit jazz.