Console Gamers, Explain This "Discs Needed For Games" Thing To Me

Discussion in 'PC/Console Game Discussion' started by peterb, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. peterb Armchair Designer

    I have known for a long time that I am more disc-averse than your average person. I understand that there are plenty of people who don't mind managing physical media. That's cool. I can't stand it. But there's something about this whole thing that I don't get.

    Assassin's Creed 3 came out; I could purchase it and download it on PSN direct to my PS3; I did so. I got a game, Ubisoft got my $60, everybody won.

    Today I thought to myself "Hey, it would be great if I could grab Lego Batman 2 for the Xbox. Check Xbox live. There's a free demo! But I can't buy the game. "Oh well, maybe I'll pick up Forza Horizon." There's a free demo! But I can't buy the game.

    What. The. Fuck?

    I could understand if it was the year 2002. I could understand if Xbox Live (or Playstation Network) didn't exist. But these networks are already in place. They've already built infrastructure, they have my credit card number, and they are able to let me buy some games via download. But the pickings are awfully slim. So completely apart from me complaining about it -- which is a part of this, yes -- I want someone to explain the economics of this to me. I am about 200% more likely to buy any given game if I can buy it online. I can't be the only person like this. To me it just feels like these publishers are senselessly leaving money on the table. Surely I must be missing some aspect of this.

    Educate me.
    Elyscape likes this.
  2. Inigima Hard Cider Gal

    You can buy full games on PSN. Microsoft just hasn't gone that route yet I guess.
  3. peterb Armchair Designer

    I don't think this is a PSN-vs-Xbox-Live thing - the same limited selection complaints apply. For example, you can't buy Lego Batman 2 on PSN (unless my search-fu failed me).
  4. SuperJay Already Beat BF's New Expansion

    Location:
    A2MI
    I'm not sure what you want anyone to explain to you. On XBL, at least, you can generally only download full games once they've been out for a while. New releases come on disc. If you want download-only versions of all new games, play PC.
    Elyscape and Lizard_King like this.
  5. Talorc Oh, Come On

    Location:
    Perth
    Once upon a time (2005) these people and their brethren were important to the success of a console:

    gamestop-logo-620x350.png

    They needed little shrink-wrapped bits of plastic to put on their shelves and make a profit margin on. Hence you need discs for the console. Now, not so much.

    Whilst the network (live) is there, the console is sitting on 2005 hardware. The hardware may not be there. I suspect there are also massive DRM implications for offering online copies of triple A stuff - I suspect it would make piracy much easier as the DRM is all tied to the disc somehow.

    Also, whilst it might be accepted now that online sales of multi gigabyte titles is great, cast your mind back to the state of Steam circa 2003/2004, when they would have been designing the X360. (hint: It was shit)

    The necessary takeup of very fast broadband internet into homes was not there in 2005 either. (the OECD reckons broadband penetration doubled in the United States from 2005 to end 2011, from 13 subscriptions per 100 inhabitants, to 27 per 100)

    Basically, you need discs because your console is still 2005 hardware and more importantly 2004/2005 Business model

    The next series of consoles will of course allow online sales of everything. Unless you are Nintendo, who knows.
  6. peterb Armchair Designer

    I'm saying I don't understand the economics of "New games are only available on disc." For me, personally (and I acknowledge that I may not be typical) that usually translates directly into "I guess I"ll wait a year before giving these guys my money, since I can get a new game on my iPad, right now." What possible advantage accrues to either the publisher or Microsoft (or Sony) in shipping a game only on disc?

    (Related: I do occasionally buy games on disc if they're something super-special for me. But even with those, I tend to play them less, because now I have to keep track of the disc, pull my fat ass out of the chair, etc etc. That in turn creates a feedback loop where when I contemplate buying another game on disc, I say to myself "Meh, I probably don't care that much about this game, I guess I'll hold off." I am totally willing to posit that I'm some sort of superhumanly lazy person that is completely atypical. But I bet not really.)
  7. peterb Armchair Designer

    I would think that the DRM story would be stronger in an Xbox Live world - but perhaps you're right?

    :-(
    Elyscape likes this.
  8. Talorc Oh, Come On

    Location:
    Perth
    Those economics made perfect sense in 2005. Which was of course five years before the iPad.
    Elyscape and Mind Elemental like this.
  9. peterb Armchair Designer

    Reviewing the Xbox Live "on demand" list, I might be overstating the case somewhat. There are actually quite a few games available for purchase; it just struck me in the face today because both of the ones I was ready to take my wallet out for weren't available.

    I suspect this may reduce to "Xbox (and PSN) are perfectly willing to sell games whenever, but the specific publishers of the games I want are dumb."
    Elyscape and Mind Elemental like this.
  10. Talorc Oh, Come On

    Location:
    Perth
    You may find the Publishers ALSO still have 2004/2005 business models that revolve around cutting sales up into arbitrary "regions" and online in your region gets the shaft.
    Elyscape, Mind Elemental and cnahr like this.
  11. Reldan Keeper of the Elemental Materials

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    It's not a technology issue. It's really a very old problem that affects more than just digital distribution like this. Retailers don't want to feel like they're competing with the publishers, selling a product for the same price but in a less convenient form. Publishers still make a majority of their profits through retail and so don't want to piss the big retailers off. Also, Microsoft and Sony absolutely need retailers to promote the sales of the consoles themselves, and often the bargain is that the retailers will not make much profit off the console sales (but will promote them heavily) in exchange for making it up on accessories and game sales.

    PC has bucked this trend because... well, you don't see a lot of shelf space given to the retail sales of PC games or PC hardware outside of a handful of major releases and specialty shops.

    But as long as MS and Sony need Wal-Mart to be hawking the physical goods that enable the entire ecosystem to function, any changes will be gradual.
  12. BobJustBob Hard Cider Gal

    Location:
    Florence, Alabama
    Sony has been making some strides in this area. I believe they offered the latest Madden as a digital purchase from day one. And Nintendo, of all people, has committed to day one digital releases of all first-party games on both 3DS and Wii U. Microsoft has the best selection but they always get games late and priced well above market value.
    Elyscape, Mind Elemental and kerzain like this.
  13. Royal Fool I Pretty Much Live Here

    Yep, the platform owners will have a tough time getting the big retailers to even stock their hardware if it's designed to undercut the physical market. Nobody knows how the digital distribution plans for the next generation will work but there will have to be some compromises made if they want GameStop or Wal-Mart or Amazon to play along.

    In one scenario, I could actually see physical versions of certain high-profile games becoming retailer-exclusive, maybe even ahead of the "release" of the downloadable version. What a wonderful evolution of the whole exclusive pre-order bonus thing that would be.

    Or maybe the pre-order bonuses will simply start becoming even more awful.
    Elyscape likes this.
  14. CSPariah Oh, Come On

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Channel conflict and marketing issues, specifically discoverability. If the market goes digital and the local retailers die off, then the publishers lose the "gramma walks into a store looking for a gift for Billy for Xmas" sales.
    OrfBC, Talorc and Elyscape like this.
  15. peterb Armchair Designer

    I am following up to myself here because it turns out I was wrong about the Sony side of things. It is both better and worse - but let's say mostly better - than the Xbox side.

    BETTER: The Lego Batman 2 game is in fact available from the PSN Store. Yay!

    WORSE: Jesus christ on a pogo stick the PSN store is a huge pile of garbage:
    (1) Searching for the game on the device is practically impossible (this is why I couldn't find it in the first place). I found it on their web site, then went to grab it on the PS3. Even knowing the game was there and knowing the name, I couldn't find it. Because there's no actual search function on the PS3 (again, that I could find). Eventually, I told the PS3 "show me all games, and sort them alphabetically". Then paged through until I found it. Brilliant. (then, when the PS3 returns to the game listing, it forgets the sort order. Ha ha ha.)
    (2) After adding the game to my cart, trying to add subsequent games resulted in "An error has occurred."
    (3) Same with trying to remove the game from my cart.
    (4) "No problem," I said to myself. "There's a 'buy download' button on the web site. I'll buy it on my computer and download it to the PS3!" So I go to the computer and click "Buy download". This triggers a popup window which says "You should buy a PSN points card and then go type the code into your PS3 and download it there." The popup window also has an ominous countdown from 15 with no explanation of what said countdown is for. I closed the popup because I was afraid that if it reached 0 it might cause the world to explode or something.

    Summary: Kudos to Sony for making it possible for me to buy these games as downloads, but please, please, please, fire all of your interaction designers and hire new ones.
    Afti, Elyscape and kerzain like this.
  16. peterb Armchair Designer

    Download 5 GB game? CHECK.
    Run 10 minute install procedure? ROGER.
    Entire thing followed by immediate need to download a patch? I GUESS I AM USING A PS3.

    #firstworldproblems, but still, what a pile of crap.
    CSPariah, Marcin, Afti and 3 others like this.