Dark Souls SL1 / Starting Build Discussion

Playing DS with a restricted build changes the game significantly by forcing you to focus on the fundamentals favorable to your limited options. To be clear, I'm including Pyromancer at SL1 with the other classes at their starting soul levels; the idea is to encourage creativity in minimalist use of the tools you have available and figuring out comparative advantage at the margins. Things like crossbows and the full palette of medium shields start to become kind of a big deal, along with pyromancy as the oh shit button we all know and love.

Inspiration/Youtube Protips:

Gear ideas by build:

General tips:

I started a new SL1 guy yesterday and I'm in Sen's now and really enjoying it.

Gear question transplanted from the other thread: could the Tower/Caduceus Kite Shields be a good alternative to the Balder Shield? Only three less stability at +15, better defenses, and it weighs a pound less. Also you can get it to only one less stability if you take it to Crystal +3, which should actually not be so bad since you can just buy them and keep replacements handy. I have no idea how often you'd have to replace a crystal shield though.

Pyromancer at:
25% (of 51):
Reinforced Club/Light crossbow
Hand Axe
Pyro glove
Balder Shield/Dragon Crest/Crest
Tattered Cloth torso and legs
Dusk Crown

With Havel's ring (76.5): have both crossbow and club at same time; add Tattered cloth manchette (arms).

50% (of 51)
Take above no Havel's ring build and heavy gauntlets (stone/havel's) for marginal poise and significant damage intake. Potentially swap in child's mask if you are unable/unwilling to use pyromancy in upcoming situations.

With Havel's Ring: Add heavy legs to heavy gauntlets, potentially up to an easy 56 poise with Havel's legs and arms.

It's my understanding that crystal is fragile but repairable if it's a weapon you made yourself rather than found. I guess if you equip it in the right hand you might even be able to use repair powder.

The big advantage of the balder shield is that it's potentially available very early, but yeah, it's definitely worth seeing how some of the others work out; in particular, having only 50% lightning can be nerve-wracking.

My thoughts exactly, so I put it in a format that I think might work. Give me posts to link by build and I will update OP accordingly.

Heater Shield is fantastic for shaving off weight. I prefer more stability myself so I've been using Crest and will probably start upgrading Tower Kite pretty soon, but Heater is a champ in its class, no question about it.

Shit, I forgot that you get the RoFaP any time you kill Lautrec instead of just in Anor Londo. Looks like I'm waiting :/. I do think I'm going to use it though; what will probably decide it is the precise number of extra attacks it gives me although I think as long as it gives me one, that's enough.

I can confirm that this doesn't work; crystal stuff you make is unrepairable including by powder/spell.

That's true, and it's a big spike early unlike the Kite shields which are lackluster without upgrades. The prospect of farming one bums me out though; I think the one that dropped for me last week is the only one I've gotten across all my characters.

I see. Well, then I guess you could measure out your upgrades to get the built-in repair periodically, and you could go all in on crystal weapons and use the durability ring that Sheva sells. Me, I'm actually saving all of the crystal weapons that I get in the archives because this time I'm going to gift them to people that summon me in the burg. Seems like a nice temporary boost that won't gamebreak their experience.

I've got like six on my SL1 character (PC). I don't see anything wrong with avoiding farming, but ymmv; if you want them, they're available.

Fun fact: with RoFaP and a three pound shield it's possible to equip 14 poise at <25% weight and still wear the Crown of Dusk. Well, 17 poise if you're willing to wear the Hollow Soldier Waistcloth, but I'm not, sorry. It's also an easy convert to 56 poise at <50% for the times when you can stomach that.

I had this same idea a while ago but didn't stay low level enough to actually do it. I'll definitely do it on this character, thanks for reminding me.

Thanks! No need to sweat getting connected at this point but if we jolly co-op a boss sometime (another big potential advantage of having this thread now that I think about it), I'd love one just for convenience's sake.

This fact is less fun without indicating the components you use beyond the HSWaistcloth you so foolishly sneer at. The fast track to 4x-56 poise can be had without using the ring of FaP by using Havel's and stone or havel's armor legs/arms.

~

President, HSW Appreciation Association

Sorry! It's Dusk Crown, shirtless, Eastern Gauntlets, and Knight Leggings for 14 poise at <25%, or swap both the hands and legs for Havel's for 56 poise at <50%. As for the HSW, yes I know it's very good, but it's just too ugly. I'm not too picky and I'm willing to consider most gear, but I do deselect the Hollow Soldier and Hollow Warrior sets whenever I use the armor calculator for non-academic purposes. I do have some pride.

So isn't the only real SL1 playthrough with a Pyromancer? Or is any class considered an "SL1" playthrough provided you never increase your stats?

People generally do use "SL1" to refer to actual SL1 playthroughs, which are always pyromancer. They're the most popular, I think just because saying "I beat Dark Souls at level one" has a better ring to it than "I beat Dark Souls at level four, but the class I chose starts at level four and also the starting levels are fairly arbitrary so it's like beating it at level one since I never leveled up." FWIW I think in terms of actual difficulty in no-level-up playthroughs, pyromancer is probably in the middle of the pack. Some, like Wanderer, seem like they're probably a lot easier since they have so many more weapon options (Balder Side Sword!), but the ones with no attunement slots seem like rough sledding.

You guys are crazy, but I'll watch your further shenanigans with interest, especially on some of the high HP bosses. :P

You should really try it. I thought I'd never do it, I tried it once and did it wrong and thought it was miserable, but I'm really having fun this time around. The key early on is to just be very conscious of what upgrades are available and try to press for every advantage you can given the amount of the world that is open to you.

Yeah, but pretty much all the weapons I'd actually be willing to try an SL1 wouldn't have the stats for. :)

I am actually thinking about it, which is more than I would have said a week ago.

It's really a fun weapon once you get the hang of it. It's not even bad relative to "normal" weapons, just different and more niche. I don't honestly feel like I'm giving up very much by using the RC as compared to the Claymore or whatever, although part of that could be that I've used the Claymore so much recently that I'm just kind of sick of it. In any case that leaping R2 on the Reinforced Club is a blast.

So play a different class. You wouldn't have the convenient "SL1 run" shorthand, but I'm sure people would still like to hear about it. I know you'd have my full support!

Correct! That is why this is the SL1/Starting Build thread. I think extarbags is right in that the pyromancer is among the easier or at worst average builds to have to stick with, so it's not really taking the easy way out or anything to go with another one. The point is to find the tools that work better for that build given its advantages rather than making a marginally better/worse pyromancer in each one, I imagine, but in the end it's all about survival and what works for you.

I have a small general tip that I found helpful: buy the weapon and armor smithboxes. They give you something to do with your souls when you're at a bonfire and feel like it's use 'em or lose 'em time, since you can't level up in that situation like you ordinarily would.

Also, an addendum to the tip in the OP about Power Within: the Lingering Dragoncrest Ring works wonders with PW. It extends the duration of course, but it doesn't make it deal more damage to you, it just makes you lose life more slowly. It's the best of both worlds! PS I guess I should go pick up Power Within :/.

I was going to mention about the lingering ring but I wasn't sure if it still worked since they fixed the glitching around using a low-level glove versus a high level one.

I use the Hollow and Balder sets because I like how they look, especially relative to just another long skirt or breastplate. The small boost of poise thing really doesn't matter that much post-Dark Wood Grain nerf, in my opinion, and even then combining it with Havel's plate or something was the kind of min-maxing I never had a taste for aesthetically.

That's a good point. Someone test this who has them both, otherwise I will eventually.

To each their own. I do really like the look of the Balder Armor, though.

Jockstrap and shin guards. What's not to love? Ok, well I wish the capes were either eliminated further or more fleshed out, although this is more of an offense with light outfits like the witch torso. Also I really, really wanted to be able to close the helmet. Like, Closed balder helmet and Open Balder helmet should be a gesture that makes other less magnificent helmet-wearers look silly.

You know that thing with the HSW is that it's actually fine when you're hollow, but as soon as you go human it's like an assault of exposed skin in weird places. It reminds me of FFXI, in which a number of armor sets amount to bondage gear/metal underpants (and to their credit I guess, they display the same regardless of your character's gender), except in that game unlike Dark Souls you couldn't really choose your armor on aesthetics and still be effective.

I meant the balder armor's under parts, which are even more ridiculous. In the context of fantasy/rpg armors on an absolute scale, yes, the waistcloth is ridiculous when human. In the context of the game's approach to armor realism, though, it doesn't offend me. I do wish I had it in me to choose a male character as some of the armors would be more entertaining then, but I absolutely despise their reaction sounds.

Actually, I think the pyromancer is one of the easiest SL1 character classes to beat the game with. He & the sorceror are the only two classes that get two spell slots, which allows the pyromancer to really rely on his pyromancy flame throughout his run. It was my primary weapon for most of the run. Basically, I was using the same weapon (a maxed pyromancy glove) that a normal character would have used. The main restriction that the SL1 feature added was that my shield choices were limited.

Oh... and the inability to use a bow was kinda painful in a couple areas. But most areas & boss fights felt just like a normal pyromancer run.

Contrast that with, say, a SL1 wanderer. You'll never be able to move up to the really good curved sword (The Painted Guardian one), and even the curved swords that are available to you aren't all that hot, since your dex will suck. (Elemental curved swords just don't cut it.) Plus you'll never be able to use Queelag's furysword, either. Oh... and you only have one spell slot, which means you can't rely on your spells for your main source of damage like the pyromancer & sorceror can.

By the way, the chain mail chest that the male undead merchant sells is surprisingly spectacular when fully upgraded. It provides a rather stunning amoung of defense per pound carried. In normal games I often use it for my "mid-weight" chestpiece, while in SL1 runs it often serves as my heavy armor.

Wanderer gets to use the Balder Side Sword. As much as I'm appreciating some of the cool features of the Reinforced Club, the BSS is the Cadillac of lower-requirement weapons; it excels at everything. Sorcerer would be an interesting case, because you get three attunement slots but even less weapons to choose from. I kind of think it would be somewhat harder as a result, but it's possible that three slots is enough to truly not even need a weapon, with the various combustions available.

Only one way to find out: I hereby sentence you to complete no-level-up runs as sorcerer and wanderer and report back as to which of the three is easiest.

I've been seeing that in the armor calculators too. The one I've been even more pleasantly surprised by though is the Knight set, especially the pants and gloves. One or the other of those has made it into the endgame set for like three of my last four characters, I think.

Hey also Mark M, how many SL1 runs have you done? My sense from the other thread was that you were still on your first one but the way you're talking now sounds like you've finished several already.

You know... I understand why people extol the BSS, and I can see its merits. But personally, I've *never* liked it. It just feels like a slightly beefed up Astoria's Sword to me. And if I'm going to go to all that trouble to farm a weapon, I want something quite a bit better than that. I mean... I can use Astoria's Sword to kill things, but I always think of straight swords as "that weapon I'm using until I get to the weapon I really want."

heh. If these Dark Souls threads have taught us anything, it's that my verdict on the matter would only hold true for me. Consider Exhibit A: The Law firm. That fight has never given me any trouble, and to this day I kinda scratch my head wondering why everyone bitches about it so much. It really does seem like a walk in the park.

The Four Kings, on the other hand... I can't even make out what they're doing, so I'm completely unable to see the tells for their moves. I *suck* at them. So... yeah. This game.

I've just finished the pyromancer. But because my natural inclination has always been to skimp on vitality & endurance as much as possible, I've kinda gotten a taste for how some of the other classes will play. But it's just been a taste... I haven't actually done any other classes yet. But I'm fixin' to try out that whip idea. I'm just debating if I want to do a hunter (no spells at all would be an interesting change of pace) or a thief (his 9 strength is a surprisingly large handicap. He can't even use crossbows!)

This is a fairly "advanced player" way to look at things, I think. Straight swords and greatswords are the most user-friendly weapons, because they are generally pretty easy to use and good in all areas, and the BSS exemplifies that approach. However, the more out there weapons that take a little more practice to use effectively can be very rewarding once mastered. Still, for the combination of range, speed, and damage, the BSS is honestly very tough to beat. Relative to ASS for instance, it wins every category: much better range, slightly faster I think, higher damage, better moveset since all of the R2s are super-long-range pokes. It has fallen slightly down the best weapons ever scale in my estimation as I've started to favor more focused builds and more niche weapons to go with them, but I don't think there's any denying that it's a world-class operator even if straight swords don't happen to be your preference.

I really think that playing with no access to magic at all would be really tough. Hunter at least has a good range of weapons to choose from. Bandit seems like maybe the hardest because it has really low dex as well.

Wow. Playing a bandit would be just like playing a pyromancer.... except without pyromancy. His higher strength doesn't open up *any* weapons at all, and he's hindered by the same inability to use bows. Plus... no pyromancy. Yeesh.

Jesus. That would be *really* tough.

Edit- Wait a second. I just noticed a major advantage the bandit's 14 strength gives him: he can use the Silver Knight Shield. That's a *huge* deal. Although the Baldur's shield can get almost as much stability, you A) need to spend titanite chunks & a titanite slab to get there, and B)its elemental resistances are quite a bit worse.

I phrased that poorly. I meant middle or high end of the pack in terms how manageable the difficulty was at SL1, due to the intrinsic advantages of starting with pyromancy and great armor, as well as a decent fast elemental weapon.

Anor Londo was the first real challenge since getting an upgraded Reinforced Club. Silver Knights are trick-y! Once I figured out that the R2 on the RC will interrupt their attacks though, they weren't too bad. On the plus I did take down Lautrec on the first try, which I'm only maybe 50/50 on even on normal characters, so that was a pleasant surprise. Wearing RoFaP now, which does give one extra attack. I think that's pretty good. I'll make sure to get the second one (and both each playthrough if I make it to NG+) in case I do ever want to swap in something else.

Only Ornstein and Smough remain, then freedom. Seems like it might be nightmarish. Current setup:

Crown of Dusk
Fire Reinforced Club +7
Pyromancy Flame +15
Fire Light Crossbow +5
Tower Kite Shield +10
Eastern Gauntlets +2
Knight Leggings +4

Hopefully that's enough!

Don't underestimate the poise break of the 2h R1 with the reinforced club, as it is really impressive and lets you bust it out safely from close range. Good luck, and if you're hard up for a summon with O&S let me know. You should be fine with that level of pyro glove, although I would consider bringing Solaire at least to give you some margin of error.