Allow me to confirm this. I fought Pinwheel early on my first virgin playthrough pre-Sen's Fortress using maybe an Iaito +5 or something. Granted I still beat him first try going in blind but he didn't die in 5 seconds like in subsequent playthroughs. The funny thing about the fight is it was one of the most memorable because I was completely out of flasks halfway through it thanks to the catacombs being such a real bitch so I was getting really low on health towards the end of it. It literally came down to who could land the final blow first. I panicked and hail married a black firebomb FTW before he blasted me with a fireball.
I don't think I've ever done pinwheel early, why do you say he's intended to be done earlier? I mean the Catacombs would suck without a Divine weapon and there's little point in going down there prior to having the Lordevessel, except possibly for Vamos. If Pinwheel was intended to be tackled earlier on then they made the graveyard and catacombs far too difficult in comparison.
Only thing I can think of is that you can ascend a Fire Weapon at +5 rather than +10. That's the only indicator I can think of for Catacombs being early.
I'm just inferring that from how hard he is. And by "early" I mean the first or second boss fight you do, about level five or ten. But the precise language I used is key: I think that he is intended for low levels, not that The Catacombs are intended to actually be done at low levels. It really does seem like they originally planed to have Undead Burg and The Catacombs be similarly difficult and have comparable bosses, then later decided to make The Catacombs much harder and left the boss the same.
The catacombs do suck without a divine weapon (if for some reason you have the stats, the sword from the valley of the drakes counts even though it sucks). But getting a weapon to +1 fire is a huge advantage early on, as is a shot at the mask of the child and, most of all, the right of kindling. Although I have done it as a first "real" level by running like a maniac, I find that nowadays I tend to make a beeline to the divine ember so I can get down there as soon as possible risk free, just because 20 estus and a fire weapon are a huge edge to start.I've also tacked on going into the tomb of the giants for the silver covenant ring, the ember, and the second lantern so I can hock one for the fog ring if I haven't gotten it already. I don't have any idea what they intended for Pinwheel, but his level of difficulty is definitely out of whack relatively to the Catacombs. The wheel skeletons alone are madness for early levels if engaged directly, even one by one.
On the topic of the catacombs as a potential early dungeon, I feel like it was a failed attempt by the designers to encourage the player to explore the idea of sprinting past enemies, either for shortcutting or for advantageous reasons. Because to do it without a divine weapon that's what you have to do, run like a madman, find and kill the necromancers, then deal with the skeletons. Another reason I believe this is the necromancer at the end of the second bridge. As you approach him, he flees through the area, which results in aggro from a bunch of skeletons. I can't say the logic of "Learn how to precisely murder a specific enemy" is at fault, as it can be a handy skill. edit: Even the wheel skeletons are more easily dealt with by fleeing through them rather than fighting.
So I finished this with my dexie Pyro, and immediately restarted as a sorcerer. What sort of weapons should I be looking at here? I'm really considering Str 16 and Dex 12 for the short bow and the moonlight greatsword, but right now I have nothing but soul arrows. I know about the moonlight butterfly horn as well. I'll probably go for that as feasible.
The main reason I did the Catacombs early is because that shady Petrus cleric guy was freaking out about lady Reah being stranded down there all alone and I felt I needed to go rescue her! My strength bro just did the catacombs without any divine weapons. I just bum rushed all the necros. The early ones are really easy to reach without having to fight a lot of skeletons. Having full Havel and a 15+ great sword might have helped a great deal.
This is the way to do it, man. I just run it as soon as I can convincingly beat Pinwheel, but just dropping through The Catacombs and getting all that treasure early on is a great setup for the rest of the game. These days I start off by grabbing the two easy firekeeper souls, the Dragon Crest Shield, and some kind of decent weapon and then I head straight for Pinwheel.
No, it's impossible. Dropping through makes it easy to get there subsequent times, but you do have to do it the normal way at least once first if that's your interest. Edit: to clarify in light of the below, I specifically am talking about skipping the entire level after the first bonfire and just dropping from bridge to bridge to wheel skeletons.
If you know exactly where to go, yeah. I had to meander a bit because I had forgotten the layout entirely (plus there are those pit traps that confused me the first time around) and of course if you have no Divine weapon it'd be horrible since everything would be re-rezzing all the time. Assuming basic layout knowledge and a Divine weapon though? Yeah, quite easy. Not quite as easy as dropping to Pinwheel, but still not hard. Edit: ah crap, did I forget about the rotated bridges? I thought you could somehow drop to the side and get in from that side. Actually, I still think you can. Bags?
... there's only one way to find out. New character ahoy! Hm, but what to do now? I've done sorcery (although not to crystal stuff) and now I'm doing STR, more or less, with a huge side of Pyro. Not sure what else to try. I'll be back with a report on how easy/not easy it is. :D
My SL 54 warrior is at the duke's archives. But I need to go find thye cursebite ring, and he's got no way of healing himself outside of humanity. Extar, I'm not sure how useful he would be. He does have a +10 Zwei.
Almost-all-pyro was a pretty fun build I have to say. I like OGS but if you've been playing strength it won't feel that different. You could always try dex, or faith, or buff-based sorcerer...
I'm thinking enough dex to use the most demanding katanas (and some rapiers, fast weapons basically), then all Sorcery. My first character was kind of a buff sorcerer (only 3 slots? or maybe 4) so actually going all INT/ATT sounds different enough.
This roughly describes my first build. Although I didn't really do a deep dive into sorcery until NG+, opting instead for Pyromancy. Lightning iaito + pyromancy in NG and a fire claymore + sorcery in NG+. Worked out really well. My next build is going to be an ultra nimble fighter with the Dark Wood Grain "ninja flip" ring equip. Shield use at the minimum and low poise! The plan is to not even get hit, just flip out and kill people.
Yes, the earlier the better once you have that divine weapon imo. That way you get Patches being a dick but actually enabling you to backtrack from the first shortcut this guy demonstrates (just be quick, and iirc he'll only try to dump you once and then leave it after you talk to him), and then you can use the Great Scythe entry point to get at the necromancer and the switch there from the rear (you don't have to flip from bridge, but it's more direct than dropping to the GS from just above it. All of this is a lot better if you get the fog ring first, of course.
Was someone saying they thought the Gargoyle Halberd was a great weapon for a faith character? Why? I finally got one to drop for my faith guy, but I'm in andor londo so I can't really do anything about it for some time (I've only just killed both of the Gargoyles). The +6 Claymore is not really cutting it much anymore, but the halberd un-upgraded is worse. OTOH, I am getting much better at backstabbing so that's something. Fighter has hit a wall in the Archives (I'm trying to get back to logan and get the firelink soul there; He's got 20 or 25 vit + wearing ring of favor, and +2 estus flasks don't heal for nearly enough). I keep dying stupidly on the way down (after getting close my first try but spazzing out against one of the last octo-things and getting impale killed).
Because faith weapons have relatively low damage, so it's good to use a weapon with high base damage. For its stat requirements, ease of access, weight, and flexibility across PvE situations, the gargoyle halberd is tough to beat generally. As a secondary divine weapon that non-faith characters use for the catacombs, it's great, and while I tried to find something better for my faith character, I kept coming back to it. Archery is really great for luring out those octo things. If you pay attention to that opening lunge of theirs, it's relatively easy to sidestep or backpedal out of, and then rush them with a 2h strike or backstab.
Yea, if you never crystal soul speared you never sorcerer-ed. 3 or 4 slots? Pshaw, that's support sorcery.
Got the faith char into the cathedral. Got lucky against the archers again. I planned to force knock the one off the ledge and it worked after a couple of castings (with a roll or two spersed inbetween). Getting to them was trickier. A couple of silly deaths but I got invaded (I've been human for the latter part of shen's; my 6 deaths against the iron giant are a story for another time). So the guy backed off and bowed - cool. He uses some sorcery, the butterfly horn spear, and a sickle that looks like Laurtre'cs. The latter completely breaks my guard stamina regardless? I got an early backstab on him, though. After that, I tried to get in position for more but he seemed too quick (I'm <25%). I do some normal attacking but I barely seem to be hurting him (the backstab did a shitload though, like 40% of his humanity). He uses 2 homing soul masses but both miss. And then we mostly circle each other for 2-3 minutes. It's pretty fucking boring. I eventually wittle him down, and he uses humanity to heal.. I just want to progress, so I move over towards a ledge and he follows, and I maneuver so his back is to the ledge and he doesn't do much and I flail at kicking him off (and miss like 4 good opportunities to do so) but manage to knock him off anyway on an attack (alas, I was comboing and the follow up stroke carried me over). That was fucking stupid. It seemed obvious he could have killed me without a sweat. He basically didn't attack for two minutes. It felt like he was toying with me a bit. I don't really appreciate that.
OTOH, nothing eases the pain of being toyed with in pvp like some Jolly Cooperation (lawfirm down). One more sunlight medal and I can nab the lightning upgrade.
SL1 - 4 Kings down. Both that and Lautrec's Funhouse showed a lot of nerve in capitalizing on their last smidge of health to clobber me, but now it's really just finding out what other things are surprisingly difficult with very little health. I don't expect Seath, Bed, or any other boss in the conventional game to give me as much trouble as they did. Then again...
For me it's all about the Rite of Kindling. It allows me to at least dabble in New Londo, which I really like to do, both for its Large Ember and for all the sexy Titanite Chunks that are available on the lower level. I've tried to do New Londo with only 10 flasks, and that's kind of a non-starter for me. Honestly, I find the Catacombs really fun & fairly easy almost from the get-go. Not to do properly, mind you, but doing the first bit + the drop shortcut to Pinwheel isn't tough at all w/out a divine weapon. I do it fairly regularly. The only tricky part is killing the first necromancer, but it's not bad as long as you keep moving. Also, kicking skeletons who are still immortal off that cliff with all the wisps never gets old.
^^ so I tried that for a bit, but at SL12 Sorcerer (where I'm still trying to get the basic reqs for most basic weapons), the Catacombs aren't really fun to me. Sure I can run circles around things and even get to that first necromancer, but the Estoc is going to take about an hour to kill him and his fireballs are FAST. I'll come back when I have a bit of an upgraded weapon and something that can block fire. My report on how easy dropping to Vamos is will have to wait until then :P Oh yeah, Nito down on my STR char. It's rather fun to switch between this guy (WHAM FALL OVER) and the new character that basically specialises in dancing around everything. I swear, there's at least 3 different games in here depending on how you spec for Base Game. I finally turned Steam overlay back on, so here's some shots. STRANFF Post Nito. These threads will do. :D DAGGAR! Fun, but the damage done sure is tiny. Sorcerer wanna-be, poised for Burgh murderation.
Yeah... sorcs are kinda weird. They are in many ways super powered killing machines, but they can't handle a lot of the early game tricks. Or at least, they can't when I control them. Generally if I do the Catacombs super early, it's with a more weapons-oriented build. Basically, anything other than a sorceror. This is an *excellent* way of putting it.
Right on. I no longer make divine weapons unless I'm playing a faith character, and even then I normally just fill in with Astora's Straight Sword.
