Dark Souls

Discussion in 'PC/Console Game Discussion' started by Lizard_King, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. Blackadar Worked The System

    I don't understand a thing either one of you said. I'm not angry, but you might as well be speaking Greek. I have no idea how to block - never seen a tool tip on this and the controls pages I've seen on the web don't say a word about blocking. I don't understand "humanity", "kindling" or "hallowing". Equipment? Just what I've started with - a lousy axe and 8 fire spells. I didn't blissfully walk past any shrines and I don't even seem to have access to a map. Now if I'm supposed to understand humanity, or weight encumbrance, or any of this other stuff, then then the game has some serious flaws explaining what seems to be some very basic concepts, because all it's done is tell me how to fight, roll and sprint. That's all I can do.

    Frankly, I don't think we're even talking about the same area. I've seen no blacksmith, elevator, gravestones or anything of that sort. I appreciate the attempts at helping, but I think I'll go play something "simple" like Kerbal Space Program. Astronomy & Physics seems a lot easier than Dark Souls.

    EDIT: Oh, and I just checked. I have no humanity, can't "kindle" or any of that stuff.
    lesslucid likes this.
  2. jeffd Armchair Designer

    Location:
    Oakhurst, NJ
    Heh, trust me: we're talking about the same area Blackadr. I know exactly where you are!

    OK, some basics: you block with a shield, by holding down the left shoulder button. In general, you should have your shield up almost all the time. When you get hit from the front with your shield raised, your shield will absorb much (perhaps even all) of the damage. Blocking hits will cost you some stamina though, but that's better than losing health!

    Second basic thing: encumbrance. All of your gear (weapons and equipment) weighs something. You have an Equp. Load stat that is based on your endurance. There are two encumbrance thresholds: <=25% and <=50%. At <=25% you move quickly and will regen stamina very rapidly. At between 25% and 50%, you will move slower and regen stamina less rapidly. At more than fifty percent you are in trouble; you will be very slow, stamina regen takes forever, and when you try and dodge you land flat on your face. One of my early mistakes was to discount encumbrance and equip all sorts of "better" armor; it sucked! Your main damage blocker is your shield, armor is just cake.

    Out of curiosity what starting class are you? What gift did you take?
    Mirriam and Lizard_King like this.
  3. Alexb Hard Cider Gal

    The game teaches you to block in the starting area, when you first get a shield. The "Firelink Shrine" is the area you arrive at after leaving the asylum: the game gives you the name of the area every time you enter or renter it. There is no map in the game. The game does not explain how humanity, kindling, or weight encumberance works, but whether or not that is a flaw is a matter of debate.

    The blacksmith, elevator, and gravestones are all near the starting area, the "Firelink Shrine".

    You should have at least one humanity in your inventory, unless you already consumed it, because you are given one once you've defeated the Asylum demon.

    If you don't have some patience and aren't willing to either experiment a lot, or ask people for advice, then you are not going to like this game very much. It does not explain itself well, or at all, though in some respects that's part of the charm.
  4. apezilla BERSERKER

    Holding L1 is blocking , tapping l2 is usually a parry move(with most shields).
    R3 is the very important lock on button- it allows you to circle strafe around an enemy ( you must be near enough).

    There is humanity to be found at firelink shrine and at undead burg. You got some in your inventory.

    Did you find the merchant in that area?

    If not explore more !
  5. jeffd Armchair Designer

    Location:
    Oakhurst, NJ
    Blackadar: once you figure out blocking, notice that your enemies, after they hit your shield, tend to stagger backward? That's your opening to hit them without fear. Obviously with more than one enemy this gets dicey, but one on one, once you know how to block, you can kill anything in that starting area. Later on you'll meet things that do not stagger after hitting your shield, and after that you'll either get a new shield or upgrade your current shield such that maybe they will after all. :D
    apezilla likes this.
  6. Dan Lawrence Sangry Grognard

    Location:
    Hall of Grudges
    Yes, this is also very important to learn. Mastering locking on and switching targets is a key early skill that the game also doesn't mention or at least doesn't emphasize.

    The first merchant is slightly back from the bonfire in the opposite direction from the boss tower. Down the stairs immediately next to the bonfire you are at, past the crossbow guy and the three or four regular melee guys, past two spear wielding chaps, down another small staircase hidden under crates and then with one more surprise axeman you are basically there. Easy when you know.

    The first blacksmith is back at the first bonfire in the area known as ' firelink shrine' but I personally wouldn't worry too much about him right now, as likely you'll have a max of about one titanite shard item in your inventory and that blacksmith doesn't sell them unlike the 'second' one so your upgrade potential is very limited.

    I wouldn't worry about getting the hang of pyromancy either in this area. It has many uses for 'one hitting' some of the early enemies that turtle but you don't get enough uses to power through a whole area so it is a bit of a blind alley right now likely the slow wind up time will get you killed more than it saves you in a one on one combat.

    Far more handy is sniping with a bow which you will be able to do once you find a merchant, save up some souls and buy a bow and a pile of arrows.

    Finally there is something to be said for 'grinding' up your stats like endurance, vitality and strength/dexterity a little bit, doing so will make the game easier and the combat practice in the burg, once you get more of a handle on how it works and are ready to think about advanced tactics like backstabs and parrying, will help you with the tougher enemies to come. For now the skills are patience and shield blocking and then counter attacking when the enemy has hit you first. Try to engage in one on ones wherever you can manage it by pulling people with the bow if necessary.
    Mirriam likes this.
  7. Blackadar Worked The System


    Thanks Jeffd for the help on blocking. I took someone's advice about being a pyro/master key.

    apezilla & Alexb - no, I don't have any humanity. As I said, I checked. No idea why I don't, but I don't. Please don't tell me I do. I have no idea if I "consumed" it. Simply put, I wouldn't know how. I found a guy who gave me a coin some time ago - I had to look up what to do online because he wouldn't talk to me. Maybe that's the merchant you're talking about, but I can't buy anything nor can I sell anything. I still haven't seen anything that looks like an elevator. I have found the graveyard, but it's pretty much instant death for my skill level. I can't even get by the first pair of skeletons - as soon as I go to swing, I get hit about 3 times and I'm dead. Not to mention nothing seems to drop from anything, so there's little reason to go kill stuff aimlessly. Do monsters actually drop anything? Or do you find everything from chests?

    Considering how very different you descriptions are and what I'm experiencing, I almost wonder if this game is bugged or corrupted. As it is, my weekend is waisting away and this game doesn't seem to be worth my time.
  8. jeffd Armchair Designer

    Location:
    Oakhurst, NJ
    Yes, monsters drop stuff. Yes, you find stuff in chest. Yes, the graveyard will destroy you. That being said, it's a popular early-game suicide run, because the skeletons take a few moments to form up you can run past them and grab loot (the glowy white things lying around are weapons). In that graveyard you'll find a Winged Spear and a Zweihander, which are both pretty good weapons. You're going to die in the process, but who cares? You keep the stuff after dying. :)

    Pyromancer/Master Key is a good starting combo; the Master Key lets you get some nice stuff earlier than you might otherwise. For instance, there's a suicide run you can make to get a very nice early game shield.

    If your experience is anything like mine, you won't be seeing the elevator or blacksmith for a little while. That's OK! It took me several hours to get through the part of the Burg you're in. As far as the merchant goes: he's a little tricky to find. If you leave the fire and turn right (past the guy with a crossbow) and go down those stairs, you're on like some ramparts. Off to your left you'll see a pair of spear & shield wielding skeletons. These guys are a big pain because they tend to keep their shield up; the best way to deal with them is to kick them (it staggers them, which will let you get ah it or two in). Once you deal with them (and you're going to die until you get used to them; trust me I made that corpse run probably a half dozen times) you can break some of the stuff on their platform to reveal some stairs downward. The merchant is down there, but be careful! There's a skeleton hiding behind some rubble who will burst out and ambush you.

    I do get your frustration; I really really recommend against going into this game cold. A lot of crucial stuff is left unexplained and you will rapidly get frustrated and hate the game. If you go into the DS forum here and look at the "Tell me how to get started" thread you'll see that I was incessantly spamming questions to figure out what's going on. There are a lot of veterans who will help you out. Treat them like the missing manual they are!
    Alexb, Dan Lawrence and apezilla like this.
  9. Lizard_King Already Beat BF's New Expansion

    Holy shit, Blackadar ; you got all this way without knowing how to block. That practically makes you a savant, and I'm being dead serious. Hold L1 with a shield equipped in that slot, and your world will change.

    If you look at the game as an aggregate of problems, then yes, it's incredibly difficult. I would suggest breaking them up into tactical scenarios you can engage in turn. Also, I'm going to be referencing a technique called "backstabbing", described in this tutorial in the OP of this thread, so maybe take a look at that; it's incredibly useful to get the hang of it early. At any point, consider "backstab this fucker" as an optimal move to use on a man-size target, as it gives you invincibility during the animation and does critical damage. Also, for the purposes of this I recommend you hit your xbox button and manually sign out before starting to play, because while you'll want to try the multiplayer later, we don't want to get caught with our pants down by it.

    First, let's consider what your character's current assets are, especially their weapon, shield, and armor. If you've managed to get a ranged weapon to drop (not sure if you mean that or pyro when you talk about ranged), that's even better but not mandatory; mention it if you do have it though. Finally, throw in soul level and starting class as that tells us about options for gear that's nearby.

    Assuming you have a pyromancer as your starting class, you have good to great starting clothing in terms of how much it protects you for the weight, but it has no poise meaning you will get interrupted when you get hit. Your starting weapon is decent in terms of damage and hits wide, but short; that's tricky until you realize that standing next or just past enemies still lets you whack them, rather than trying to gauge the range face to face. But your biggest problem is that your starting shield is a piece of shit. It can't soak 100% of physical damage and it has low stability (average is in the 50s, good is 60+ once you start upgrading) which means you get a lot of your stamina taken for each hit. We will address this shortly. Also, you need to look at your total weight allowance and always have handy what 50% and 25% of that is. Anything you equip should fall either under 50 or 25%, and they are two different tiers of movement and roll speed. Whenever one tier isn't working for you, add or remove gear and assess the differences in options. Strafing around enemies for a backstab is much easier at 25% (note you strafe faster with your shield down), but if having 50% gives you better armor or an additional weapon you like having handy, like the ranged weapons we are about to talk about, then that might be worth it.
    Is this new bonfire kindled (ie once you reversed hollowing, did you use a humanity item/have an additional "soft" humanity (the number in the upper left of your screen) to spend? If that's the case, great, then you're getting ten estus flasks from it. If not, then we need to fix that or this geographic advantage of a new bonfire turns into a tactical disadvantage relative to the firelink shrine, which starts at ten estus flasks. Luckily, the best way to get "soft" humanity added to your stack is to kill things in a level where you haven't killed the boss, which is what you might want to do a lot of right now.
    Be aware that reversing hollowing means you can be invaded by lower level human players in levels where you haven't beat the boss, which is why we disconnected from XBL. However, being unhollowed also means you can summon other players to come help you, so it's a tradeoff you'll probably want to make at some point.

    If you're wearing light armor (ie no clanking when you walk) on your torso, you can gently incline the stick to walk. If you walk outside instead of running, you'll trigger the swordsman on his own, first. This means you have a couple of choices, and I'm just going to throw out some details. If you walk on the right side of the little wood bridge connecting your tower to the parapet, you have a chance of triggering him so that he lunges at you across the void and falls to his death, without ever alerting anyone else so long as you don't run or make other loud noises. Your second priority is going to be that archer, and killing him is a great opportunity to try switching to 2h stance after he shoots by tapping Y, smacking him until dead, and then switching back to one handed stance by tapping Y again so you have your shield ready. Alternately, you can experiment with the limits of arrow tracking when you strafe or roll. The bonfire's right there, so experiment away.

    Now, before we go forward, let's try going back a bit. You go down the stairs bit by bit, retreating slowly when you aggro someone, or you can just make some noise atop the stairs and see who gets lured at what proximity. It is possible to split up all three of them into separate attacks, and they are all vulnerable to the lunge into the void I described above. Anyway, you've already skinned that cat a few times so play around with it. What we're getting at is the two assholes with the shields and spears over to your left; these guys are hollow warriors, as opposed to the more raggedy dudes in vests that are mere hollow warriors. They are harder to stagger, have more HP and resistance, and do more damage.

    Now, these two have a really decent shield, and a spear, and they can attack you from behind it. They are difficult to strafe around for a backstab unlike the other clowns, they won't overcommit as readily as their swordwielding pals and they outrange you. So you don't want to give them a chance to work together, and use their measured movement against them. The key technique here is "kick". Kicks are executed when you hit both forward on the left analog stick *and* R1 at the same time. That will drop most enemy's shields, and it definitely does so to these guys. Then you can hit them at your leisure, and if you really want to get ahead you'll switch to 2h like I said above and knock the hell out of them. Just try to keep the one behind the other, so they don't get the chance to circle behind you. The other alternative for fighting them is to hit them on the shield, instantly raise your shield and take their hit, and then hit them back. This is sub-optimal, but much easier.Either way, pay attention to your stamina and retreat as needed; your stamina recovers much faster if your shield is down, so do that and watch for the enemy's tells to know when to put it back up.

    Anyway, solve this problem however you choose, and then head downstairs. There's a doorway that takes you to a merchant who sells a number of interesting items, not least of which is the shortbow for which you'll need one more point of dexterity and the arrows you'll need for it if you choose to get it. I think it's a great investment, but more interesting to us right now are the humble throwing knives. See, these guys will go in the item slots instead of equipment, they weigh nothing, and for a mere ten souls give you the ability to soften up or kill anyone who is in range of your lock on. Don't try to kill a boss or large knight with them, but they are a great tool for breaking up groups of hollows.He also sells the heater shield, which is a great light shield that takes 100% off physical damage assuming you have enough stamina to withstand the shield. Alternately, you can hope to get one of the many guys you fight to drop a hollow shield which is also pretty good. Also, I suggest you buy the merchant's keys for any later doors. I love, love, love, the humble reinforced club, which lets you stagger the fuck out of enemies with its 2h r1 attack, but I digress. Don't forget you have generic souls (under the souls tab) as an item, and they are great to use at merchants for anywhere from 200 to thousands of souls to spend later on.

    I'm not going to spoil the surprises in here further, but there are some rewards for exploring further down. Again, advance slowly, listen, and try to lure enemies to you piecemeal if you can. Fighting them back on turf you know to be friendly is a great idea.

    Now, if you head back to your beloved crossbowman's sniping area of choice, we can head back to the building before that, the one you were stepping out of when that dragon pounced in front of you. If you look at the other side of the building as you come in, there's an open doorway that faces another open doorway, but it's out of the reach of all but the most insanely timing sensitive jumpers, if it's possible at all. However, if you clear the area down by the merchant and take that long ladder up, you'll see you're on the roof of that same building and can jump down into that doorway (get a running start by sprinting with B then tap B again as you near the ledge and you'll jump forward dramatically, although it may be that normal running and just rolling at the edge will get you there although I've never tried it). You go out to the balcony in that building, follow it around, and you get a light crossbow, which is a wonderful damage dealer. Your buddy the merchant sells bolts for it, and you can use it as your luring/softening tool of choice while still being able to pop up your shield in between shots. The short bow we looked at earlier will do less damage without a lot of upgrading of your stats and the bow, but it can be manually aimed; however, it has to be wielded 2h when used.

    Ok, so where were we? Now you have a number of choices. If you stick to the right side of the bridge, you can inch forward, clicking and moving the right thumbstick as you go to lock on to different targets as they come into range. You see, the bomb throwers have a range limit much closer than that of your weapon, so they can track you and burn you if you stand still while standing on the bridge proper, but you can easily get at least the rightmost two with the ranged tools we've talked about. Or, you can sprint across about halfway, turn around, and sprint back and see who you lure. Or you can move until you can target your third man outside of the other doorway, and hit him with something to lure him back. Either way, three guys coming at you on a narrow bridge (in the worst case scenario) is far preferable right now to them coming at you in a room together.

    First clear out the two dudes in the building below them and the bombers, and there's a chest there with some marginally useful bombs. Firebombers are more alert than hollow soldier swordsmen. If you inch up the stairs, you can get the bomber to activate and come at you on his own while you retreat down the stairs. You can also use your newfound ranged weapon prowess to lure them one by one. This is a great area to practice blitzing past them with your shield raised and then locking on and coming behind them while they spaz out for the backstab. Also, don't forget to open that door behind them and get the items in the chest, as they will add electricity to your weapon briefly and you can use that with the boss.
    This guy's no sweat. You know that.
    Lure, lure, lure. Use gradual proximity or ranged weapons. Kick them if their shields are up, or use the earlier "whack the shield, use your shield, then hit" approach. There's also a black knight further back if you go down the stairs instead of going up, and I suggest maybe leaving him alone.
    But look! he doesn't get his flaming barrel back! HOORAY.
    Well, that downstairs guy is someone you got to with the master key. Pay attention to this, because generally if you open something with the master key it (in a best case scenario) means you don't have the key just yet but it's probably nearby; more than likely, it means "you are bypassing a bunch of stuff to get here so maybe buckle your seatbelt. That handsome fellow at the base of the tower is known as Havel because he wears Havel's armor, and he has an excellent ring. However, he has a ton of resistances and will one shot you easily, and requires fairly advanced dodging and a lot of patience at low levels to beat.
    Again, you have choices. You can use XBL, sign in, go human at the bonfire, summon someone who looks like they are wearing something cooler than your stuff, and run away if they suck and can't kill the knight you skipped and Havel on their own. You can patiently try to beat these guys while realizing your risk profile is enormous because even with backstabs they will crush most of your shield options and you will do pitiful damage. Or you can just ignore them and move on to the boss. Also, be sure and smash the barrels in that boss tower. If you don't catch whatever comes out, just quit/reload and he'll pop up again. It's a nice get that you can't use right away, but you'll thank me later.
    The Taurus demon is a bastard, to be sure. I would go through the fog wall, kill the two guys on top of the tower you just came out of, then go back down, walk forward til the demon comes up on top of the other tower, then run like hell to the ladder, get back on top, use your electricity item that we picked up in that chest, and then 2h plunging attack that motherfucker. Then fireball or attack to taste, realizing that big dudes have a tough time with things that are underfoot.
    Gotta run before you can walk. Wait, no. Anyway, right now, it's about learning the nuances of AI and the mechanics, and all of this inching and pulling goes away once you understand the tactical scenarios better. It becomes a faster and faster process in newer levels, as you assess your options more quickly and realize just what your available tools can do.

    It's also possible it's not for you, of course. But give it some time, and try not to view it as a relentless process of advancing forward so much as improving what you have available to your character overall and your stock of "solved problems" in a level, whether in terms of permakilled enemies, banished barrels, or gangs you can handle without getting hurt much.
    sinnick, bloo, Mark M and 8 others like this.
  10. Dan Lawrence Sangry Grognard

    Location:
    Hall of Grudges
    I went through the almost exact same frustration in the section you are in right now. The game is frustrating at times, you die twice without getting back to your corpse and you feel like you lose progress as your soul pile disappears into nothing and you get reset back to a bonfire. I only play it in bursts with breaks for talking over difficulties I'm having with it with the internet. But, if you can manage to master your supply of patience and persevere for a decent while then it can also be a very rewarding game. As you read a few tips, get a little better, find a few items that let you hit a little harder, grind a few souls and get a little tougher, make a little progress and unlock a new zone the addictive quality seeps in between the frustration.

    instead of an inevitable fairground ride of 'safe' pleasure you get a wild ride of mild terror as you never lose your sense that just around the next unexplored corner will be some new and horrifying thing that will kill you faster than you can blink. At the same time though your increasing knowledge of the control mechanics, monster behaviors and level layouts gives you an enormous feeling of mastery when you can later cruise effortlessly back through a zone that was once a source of that same terror that you are still experiencing elsewhere. You also get better at dealing with dying and knowing when to just write off some lost souls in favour of trying elsewhere for a while and coming back later.
  11. roBurky Despondent Fancybear

    Blackadar: Sorry. I wasn't assuming you knew what everything I was mentioning was. I was just pointing out some options that were out there for you to discover. It's ok to figure things out slowly, it's ok to not discover everything at once, or even at all. It's a slow paced game.

    You do get 'souls' from killing enemies, which are used like combined currency and experience. But when you die, the souls you were carrying drop as that fuzzy green bloodstain, which you can recover if you reach it without dying again.
  12. Alexb Hard Cider Gal

    Is there any reason to do New Game+ (e.g. new content, enemies more challenging beyond HPs/damage, etc)? I am more inclined to start a new character, since the one that I finished with is kind of all over the place.
  13. Marcin Hard Cider Gal

    Location:
    Radio Towers
    Not really. My first guy is also all over the place and I just made 2 new ones to play different strategies with. So far I've been having more fun with them, since they're more focused. NG just doesn't call to me a whole lot; trying out Game Zero with different builds does.

    In NG enemies have a bit more HP and hit a little harder - but you keep all of your stuff except key unlock bits. At the beginning you demolish almost everything because even beefed up the early stuff just falls apart to your upgraded weapons and stats, but I suspect the bits you found difficult earlier will provide more of a challenge since you'll have to survive against them longer (more HP) and with more care (hit harder). As I said, that's not a huge appeal for me, personally.
  14. Lizard_King Already Beat BF's New Expansion

    It's much faster to do things that rely on big soul investments in NG+, as the increase in soul rewards is substantial especially with bosses. The biggest jump in HP/Damage/etc is from NG to NG+, and it's typically around 40% which gets especially interesting in fights where that was a big limiting factor previously (4kings, Gaping Dragon). If you do it at lower levels, it's very appealing for magic characters you are developing for high level PvP and the like since that's the only way to obtain multiple copies of some of the better spells (note: covenant lightning bolts and the like can't be gotten again, so I don't think it's as handy for faith characters). Pyromancy keeps up just fine, of course. Finally, only NG+ and beyond can be gravelorded with the red Phantoms, which has been happening a lot since the last patch and completely changes the math on levels.

    That said, I do think starting over with different builds tends to be a lot more fun. Just keep this one in mind and maybe come back to it later if you get curious.
    Alexb likes this.
  15. Talisker Despondent Fancybear

    Location:
    Childhood's End
    So, mods/patches/etc -- just DSFix, or is there anything else that's recommended?
  16. Hammett Worked The System

    Location:
    Gothenburg
    No, that's it.
  17. Charles Despondent Fancybear

    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    I'm enjoying NG+ a lot. Of course, I've played through NG like 4 times now. But I'm finding that a lot of things are easier than they've been ever before, but still with enough challenge that I'll occasionally be surprised.

    But it's pretty liberating to not have to explore every single corner and deal with every single enemy. B-line for a boss and worry little about anything else.

    It's probably still worth doing a few more NGs before you start on + though.
    Alexb likes this.
  18. CheesyPoof Armchair Designer

    What I like about NG+ is that the whole game feels more open to you. In NG when you come across Asylum Demon it's best to run by and do the plunge, but in NG+ I kill that bastard right then and there. Come back and take on Stray Demon! Ring a bell, ring the next, but do Quelaag's first! You can pretty much go where and do what you want.
    Alexb likes this.
  19. Marcin Hard Cider Gal

    Location:
    Radio Towers
    You can do all that in base game once you know it though. Why make it harder with a build you already finished the game with?
  20. jeffd Armchair Designer

    Location:
    Oakhurst, NJ
    Doing the bells in reverse order in the base game would be rather, uhh, difficult I think. I mean, I just beat Quelaag for the first time, and I can't imagine doing her before the Gargoyles.
    Lizard_King likes this.
  21. Lizard_King Already Beat BF's New Expansion

    Why play with soul level 1? Why play with a build that you know isn't the easiest at all? I get that you think the tactical differences in NG+ are trivial, but they aren't. NG is pretty exactly balanced around certain damage and hp parameters, and modifying them leads to some surprising outcomes at times. It also opens up the options I listed above for painlessly doing soul-intensive things you wanted to experiment with, like field-testing weapons you're not sure you want to devote an entire build to, as well as encountering gravelords as they were meant to be encountered. Also, if you are doing high level PvP (90+) there's no reason not to do so in NG+ unless you like the world to be a pushover for your combination of stats and experience.

    Also, beating the Asylum demon with a starting character and a broken sword is still pretty hard, and much more attainable in NG+ relative even to the bomb gift start (which, again represents a much harder start than the master key overall). You *can* ignore embers and items in NG, but it makes for a far more arbitrarily hard game. Conversely, doing so in NG+ is just a matter of being focused.
  22. Lizard_King Already Beat BF's New Expansion

    I believe it's doable, depending on what your parameters are and what gear you are willing to dredge up; you don't need the gargoyles for twinkling titanite reinforcements, or for armor, or for upgrades through +5 since the blacksmith in New Londo can take care of that for you, and if you at least do the start of the burg you can at least get an overpriced weapon repairbox and some repair powders to carry you through the mess.

    It's just a fundamentally different kind of challenge from doing so in NG+, where it's still going to present a challenge but not in the same way.
  23. jeffd Armchair Designer

    Location:
    Oakhurst, NJ
    Yeah I guess. I was more imagining going straight to Blighttown (via Master Key shortcut), rather than killing everything up to the Gargoyles before turning around and heading in the other direction.
  24. Lizard_King Already Beat BF's New Expansion

    I wasn't saying that! I was saying you could pretty much go directly there, and then just suggesting a short detour into the start of the burg without even getting through the Taurus demon (note: I'm talking about the blacksmith in New Londo ruins). I just think it would be difficult for me to resist the call of the light crossbow, the first merchant, and possibly the knight and the lizard if I'm feeling really cautious.
    Either way, there are plenty of other paths to modestly powerful equipment early on, depending on how you want to push yourself, and if you are really scrappy Btown alone + the aforementioned NLR blacksmith can provide some incredible early upgrades since you have access to large titanite, green shards, and some great items like the eagle shield and the large club.
  25. jeffd Armchair Designer

    Location:
    Oakhurst, NJ
    Huh, neat.
  26. CheesyPoof Armchair Designer

    Smough's hammer (+5) may not be very practical, but damn it's fun.
  27. Lizard_King Already Beat BF's New Expansion

  28. Man I love this game... I need to try out something super crazy like this... preferably with the double daggers from DLC.

    I have realized that helping friends beat the game may be super fun for me, but it detracts from the game for first time players, and the difficulty that really defines it.
  29. lesslucid This Is SEWIOUS

    There are things that you need to know that the game doesn't teach you, and it's a big flaw in the design, IMHO. If you read through some kind of beginner's guide on the web, though, and persist with the game, it really is one of the most interesting and engaging things around.
  30. Blackadar Worked The System

    jeffd and everyone else...I'll take this to the Dark Souls subforum after this.

    I started another character. Seems easier this time and I've seen some stuff pop up (like help messages on the floor) that wasn't in my other game. I've made it back to the place where I got stuck before. But here's the thing...

    I still only have 5 health potions again. I don't know how to get 10, which I'll need to get to the boss. I don't have any humanity (honest!) - it says so when I try to kindle the fire. How on God's Green Earth do you get 10 health potions???\

    The merchant doesn't seem to buy anything and I've actually had a couple of things drop, so what do I do with this spare stuff? I've found a spear, morning star, the Z weapon, etc. Of course, I can't use any of them - it tells me I don't have the stats (though what stats I need it doesn't seem to display).

    Also, what's the best thing to level up with on the pyro at this stage?
    Lizard_King likes this.
  31. extarbags Already Beat BF's New Expansion

    Ok here's how this works, and it's definitely not your fault for not understanding it. The word "humanity" can refer to two different things in the game. One is the "soft" humanity that you actually spend to do things. That's the number in the upper right corner. You spend that to turn human (this is the "reverse hollowing" option at the bonfire), and you also spend it to kindle the bonfire, which is how you get more the five potions. It's also what that "you have no humanity" message is referring to. The other thing it can refer to though is an item that sits in your inventory and is called Humanity. When you use that item, it heals you and gives you one "soft" humanity. You probably do have at least one of these, although you'll actually need two to kindle the bonfire--one to turn human, and one to do the actual kindling.

    Merchants never buy anything. There is an NPC who will show up later who will let you turn in items for a very small number of souls, but it's not really worth it because you may decide later that you wanted to use something after all. However, the merchant sells a thing called the Bottomless Box, which will let you stash stuff you don't want clogging up your inventory. You buy it once and can access it from any bonfire.

    If you press X (or equivalent; there's a thing at the bottom of the screen that will tell you what button it is for you) to show the full description of the item, it will show the stats needed to use it.

    Class doesn't actually affect this (or anything except your starting stats and gear). In general, a good rule of thumb is to level up strength, dex, int, and faith only to meet the requirements for the weapons and spells you want to use, and to otherwise raise vitality and endurance.
  32. CheesyPoof Armchair Designer

    I am loving Smough's hammer. I used it to help Charles take down Kalameet, and when we took down Artorias in my game (too slow for the 4k, FWIW).Its numbers are better than the BKH and while it's slower, it swings in a fairly wide arc and will still hit enemies while they doge. In NG+ I am one shotting those crystal guys, compare to three for the BKH. It two shots crystal golems (4 BKH), and I can 2h one shot those damn channelers. I can't recommend you slog all the way to 58 STR to 1h it, but if you're in the neighborhood maybe try it.
  33. Dan Lawrence Sangry Grognard

    Location:
    Hall of Grudges
    Well, it'll show you the required stat numbers next to little icons that you have to first memorize what they mean from another stat screen elsewhere in the menu. :D

    There are also rows of icons next to a letter or a dash for which, if any of the character stats boost your performance with that weapon (S being the best stat affinity/scaling rating of course because, Japan). What really confused me for a while is that most of the shields also have stats prominently displayed identically to the weapons (used for the various shield bash attacks) even though they are really your primary means of defence so the stats that genuinely matter seem to be tucked away on the far right. Well that was my amateur impression anyway.

    In fact the inventory system itself is pretty confusing as it's split over two top level screens one of which is used to 'equip' items into slots for later use and another screen which is solely for using certain items immediately and examining their descriptions e.g. using the 'large souls' that immediately grant you 1,000 souls or whatever number and the found 'Humanity' items that immediately raise your soft humanity is done in this screen. Even people who've played the game all the way to the end weren't aware you could reorder items in the inventory for swifter swapping using some series of buttons.
  34. Lizard_King Already Beat BF's New Expansion

    Fwiw the best way to use a stack of souls or humanity and the like is to equip it in an item slot and pop it repeatedly as you would an estus flask. Otherwise you tend to go mad opening inventory and the like. Also, for future reference as your health bar gets longer, you can use multiple estus in one drink animation by just tapping it additional times as you're drinking.
    roBurky, apezilla and extarbags like this.
  35. Marcin Hard Cider Gal

    Location:
    Radio Towers
    Well, he was specifically asking if anything greatly changes or is different. My contention is that it's much easier to switch up play style with a new character than with an existing in NG.

    What you say may be true but I don't think it answers the question.
  36. Lizard_King Already Beat BF's New Expansion

    What I say is true. It answers the question of difference by addressing specific things that are available in NG+ and its embarrassment of souls as well as the broad experience of making the game challenging again while you perfect and refine a build, as opposed to
    which I don't think accurately represents the 40%+ improvement you often see or the concomitant soul inflation. So, for instance, if you did a strength build, the most straightforward of builds, there's room in NG+ to cheaply and easily hunt down and develop other big weapons and shields and experiment with them *and* you actually have enemies with the wherewithal to put up a fight against you while you do it. If you have a magic build or a pyro you can add in those spells in numbers that are of your choosing rather than dictated by scarcity, which puts you in great shape for PvP or PvE. And so on.

    This may or may not be appealing to you, and I'm not interested in arguing it as if starting again or continuing were mutually exclusive options. All I'm offering are specific impressions of what NG+ has to offer. I really like doing it, especially as a pseudo-coop where I link up with other people for the more dramatic bits, shitty networking permitted. I also have plenty of new characters, and the two are not in conflict.
    CheesyPoof and extarbags like this.
  37. extarbags Already Beat BF's New Expansion

    NG+ is a substantially different game. You could argue that NG++ and beyond aren't that different from NG+ and therefore possibly not worth playing (although the second part is still not true imo), but NG+ is a seriously very different experience from NG. Refusing to play it is leaving Dark Souls experiences on the table almost as surely as if you refused to play the game any further than Ornstein and Smough.
    Charles, CheesyPoof and Lizard_King like this.
  38. jeffd Armchair Designer

    Location:
    Oakhurst, NJ
    Extarbags already answered your question re: getting 10 Estus flasks. I know you can definitely find one "hard" humanity on the corpse draped over the well in Firelink Shrine. You should have received another hard humanity along the way; that should give you enough to kindle the fire.

    No merchant buys stuff; your inventory just bloats endlessly. Buy the box and use it. Dark Souls isn't like a traditional RPG where most weapons are just crap (OK the pile of broken Hollow swords you get are). If you find a weapon you enjoy using, you can almost certainly upgrade it into something that will be totally viable for most of the game. There are certainly some major all-stars (I got lucky and scored a Gargoyle Halberd, which is one of them), but pretty much anything is good. That merchant sells a reinforced club which - of all things - is apparently pretty great.

    As far as stats go, extarbags went over how annoying the UI is. Suffice to say that there's a stat requirement screen when you view the item's details (go into the inventory and hit x once or twice). The icons you'll mostly care about are a flexing bicep (strength) and a hand (dexterity).
    apezilla likes this.
  39. CheesyPoof Armchair Designer

    The enemies in the Undead Burg can randomly give you a soft humanity.

    Broken sword has one use, it can be used for a specific boss weapon. Arguable if that weapon is worth it.
  40. Marcin Hard Cider Gal

    Location:
    Radio Towers
    Well, what I meant is, I believe you when you say it's different for you; however, reading over your list it just doesn't sound like it to me. This part is probably at the crux of it.
    The base game is ample challenging to me yet! I suspect this may be a perspective difference, is all. I didn't get very far, but it felt like the souls were trickling in at an agonizing pace, which also does not seem to me to be the way to "cheaply and easily" "perfect and refine a build". Well, there's also the base issue, which is that my first build would be hard to perfect as my points were all over the place - it's not really a build, it's an organic agglomeration of stats, which is the same situation the original question was behind.

    I just don't think there's a wrong answer to this. Do both, see what each feels like.