Diabolik Lovers Game Discussion.

I feel conflicted over liking your post because I don't actually like it, Chamomile, so I won't. But thank you for telling me.

I have a rather tl;dr post (with some mild spoilers) about why I don't think the game is trying to glamorize/justify these kinds of relationships at all. Rejet's later games (such as this and Black Wolves Saga and even Gekka Ryouran Romance to some degree) aren't really meant to be compared to other otome games and held up as some romantic story, I think. The meaning they're trying to convey is kind of different.

Thisthisthis. That'd actually be a pretty cool game. A VN-slash-adventure game where you play as a psychiatrist and you have to help your patients overcome their issues. I'm imagining it in a sort of Phoenix Wright format.

Diabolik does have pretty art, though. Still, I like my Otome games with non-abusive relationships. Hits a bit too close to home, y'know?

A few of their very basic traits are the same. Subaru still likes smashing things. Reiji is still obsessed with his tea set. Ayato's still got his iron maiden. But like... How things play out on their actual routes is quite different and it's hard to imagine that the CDs occur within the same universe. Many of my friends who loved Reiji based on the CDs were very uhhh taken aback by his route. And Laito? Okay he does some pretty nasty things on the CD, but that doesn't come anywhere close to his actual route.

In general, I think the guys are nicer (RELATIVELY SPEAKING) on the CDs than they are in the game because the CDs are meant to be "good listening" whereas honestly I feel like the game is trying to make more of a statement.

Exactly. It doesn't have to glamorize it to make me feel squicky inside while watching it.

And oh man, now I want to make that game.

I also think that would make an awesome game! Romance and crazy really don't mix well for me. I flinch my way through these kind of games.

And Nebty, all of my hugs.

There is nothing great about Kanato nor nothing extremely wrong about him(compared with others of course), he is kinda popular because he is shota looking somebody that passed so many shit and one just end feeling sorry for him just like some of the others brothers.

Dude, thisthisthis. Epic. You should!

Haha I don't know, I'm a psychology major with a focus on child development/abnormal psychology so I eat up this sort of game because I get to psychoanalyze the crap out of everyone. _(:3」∠)_ Most normal otome games (particularly the ones that take place in high school) don't really do it for me anymore because they're so boring and all the love interests just follow the same tried and true tropes over and over.

There are plenty of otome games with non-abusive relationships. Personally, I'm kind of glad that they're finally making darker ones. At least then you have a choice?

Have you ever played The Asylum? It's this, but with adorable stuffed animals instead of abusive vampires.

And in the interest of not derailing the thread again, if anyone is interested in this hypothetical game they should PM me and I'll start a social forum.

If somebody made that kind of game, it'd have to be done really well. You can't cover up stuff with sparkly romance and good graphics if it's a game focused on psychiatry.

Diabolik Lovers has the romance so I'm hoping that's a bit of a cushion.

I'm not one for covering up harsh realities or subpar games with sparkly romance. And hopefully we could have at least one actual psychiatrist (or, at least, psych major) to help with the writing.

Ohmigosh, I think I might've found something that's sort of like that game. And there's two of them!

Just substitute "Psychiatrist" for "Bartender".

Oh, this is interesting! I love reading about this kind of thing.

(also I'm following you on Tumblr now; I'm retasuneko there.)

EDIT: Oh, wow, you were involved in Ristorante Amor? I played some of that and thought it was great~ Never got around to finishing it, though...

I haven't played it yet, mostly coz I has no moneys.

Oh thanks, haha. I have umm Lore discusses Dialovers and Lore plays Dialovers as two tags you can go through if you're interested in reading more of my thoughts on the game, idk. I am rather obsessive about tags so you can find all of my tl;dr analyses and whatnot by poking around a bit. /)_(\

Ah yeah, I wrote and coded it. owo Thank you!

It's actually free online. :)

ETA: Also, join us.

Jaquelle....

I know the feeling, mostly of Otome games are boring, I actually don't like so much the genre; now otome games is still a small genre compared with the others VN genres but damn they become boring pretty quickly!. It's took sometime for eroge and all-age to become in the copy paste genre that is today and sometime they try to innovate and do great games; Otome companies don't even try.

That's the trouble I'm having with Otome games. :/

I'm having better luck with games that have romance + other gameplay. Like Bioware games, or Persona 3 Portable. Those are usually better quality, or at least the other gameplay makes the problems with the romance easier to overlook.

ZOMG!!!! P3P is awesome! I like how they made their own AU by replacing Protag-kun with Protag~chan.

Pah, Minako is canon to me, dammit. And if P5 doesn't have a femprotag option then I will rage as nobody has ever raged before. >:(

Minato will always be better. I just like the slightly different perspective you get from Minako. I'm not sure, but I think she gets more Social Links than Minato, but I could be wrong. Still, love Minato.

Btw, have you read the manga ATLAS made for P3?

To be fair there are a LOT of otome games, but they're in Japanese, of course, and the ones that get hyped up the most in western fandom are the more romantic, boring ones since a huge majority of the western otome fandom is made up of girls aged 15-19 who are still into all that high school romance stuff. _(:3」∠)_ There are plenty of great otome games—some that are amazingly written or really challenge the way you think about things. Most people just don't get to find out about them.

But then again, I personally go looking for "otome games" with a heavier plot where romance often plays second fiddle or is downplayed, so I guess I have a personal interest in that type. Saying that otome companies don't even try to innovate isn't really fair—otome is still a fairly young genre and especially in the last year or so, there have been many games that have been pushing the envelope and doing something different. Diabolik Lovers is one of them, but there are many more that just don't get much recognition. Like when I started my Koezaru LP, most people didn't even know the game existed? Or when I brought up Jyuza Engi?

Maybe "really love" is a bit of an exaggeration, because it'd probably still terrify me, but I'd rather have a messed-up game with an original premise than a slightly less messed-up otome game.

Play Sakura Taisen! It's dating sim + SRPG. Well it's not otome, but...

...also I think Growlanser has RPG elements but I don't actually have that game yet.

Someday I'll be able to read Japanese and find these games for myself. Because romance is nice but so is plot.

Thanks for the recs. :)

...is there a specific example you're referencing here? It sounds like there is but I'm not catching it...?

...I see...?

Pistols at dawn, ma'am. :P

Oh, obviously. But honestly games like this one often treat the main character like a psychiatrist anyway: someone for the love interest to pour out the problems to. This is obviously highly stressful if you're not in the right frame of mind for it or it could trigger something for you, but if you're going into it prepared it can be an interesting experience. I just think it would be better, and perhaps even less stressful, if the player character was inherently detached from the proceedings instead of being the object of affection.

Time, place and number of personas, ma'am. :P

Shall we turn this into an epic battle?

Psst, pick a bridge. Or France. A bridge in France!

/salute

Here's what I gotta say about this sucker here before I disappear into the ether to never be seen again.
Emotionally abusive relationships are bad. Rape is bad. Psychological issues should not be used as a tool to make you like someone.
I'm a little tired of there being so many games where any/all of these things are used to show the appeal of a character. Someone earlier stated that, in the proper mindset, a game with any/all of these qualities can make for an interesting game.

Emotionally abusive relationships should not be what makes your game interesting/stand out.
Rape should not be what makes your game interesting/stand out.
Psychological issues should not be what makes your game interesting/stand out.

I can see psychological illness as something to add another layer to a game or a character, but when you use something like that to paint a character in a "look at this problem that i have i am so complicated do you love me more yet" light, it's not cool. I think, if it is done properly and respectfully instead of in a careless manner for the sake of GIVING A CHARACTER SOME DEPTH AWW YEAH LOOK HOW DEEP, it's fine. But for some reason, I can't see this game handling it well. Maybe it does, I don't know. But something tells me...

If I sound a touch perturbed about this game, it's because I am. And I know, this thread is for "Diabolik Lovers", but it was really bothering me and I needed to say something. too many games with emotionally abusive relationships/rape being treated casually floating around at once

I completely agree that emotional issues, rape, or any of the above should not be used to make characters more interesting or "sexy", or be used in a "And now you must love me" way, which is why I think this game using all of the above in the context of romance is disturbing.

I'm assuming you're referring to my reply to Elyscape's comment; I didn't mean that what you posted above should be used as the selling point to the game. It was a reply to a comment that putting yourself into the shoes of a character who has had deep emotional trauma can be damaging emotionally, and I agreed, but I also think it can be very effective if used properly (which it almost never is, mind you). That was all I meant.

Oh, no, I knew that. It was more of a comment towards the thread in the LP Forum and a few of the things here. No worries.

Okay, I feel like I just need to add my piece into this because while I completely agree with and understand why you find the game disturbing, there really is a lot more to it than what's displayed on the surface.

The thing with Dialovers is that it doesn't try to glamorize abusive relationships (in my opinion). Throughout all of the brothers routes, the heroine is really, really suffering. Her internal monologues get more and more heartbreaking, and as Chamomile stated in her tumblr post (I really liked that post btw, I recommend everyone read it or just look at it if you can) it isn't the brothers that change, but the heroine herself as she has to adapt to their twisted sadistic personalities. The game goes by 'episodes' and in each episode you have to choose between either a sadistic or masochist choice, and the masochist choices usually end up getting you the 'best' ending. This reflects on how these brothers are screwed up, and giving them 'love' and being there for them doesn't magically change them and make them better people. To me, that was a really realistic point that the game got across because girls usually think they can change these messed up guys, but that simply isn't the case.

I like this game because it doesn't shy away from these issues. There are people like this in real life so of course a game will come along and touch upon these issues. I feel like the game did handle everything in a proper manner, and there is way more to each of these characters than simply their issues. It isn't fluff, it's disturbing and made me feel sick to my stomach at certain points, but I still found it interesting. I found interest in seeing what makes these characters tick, their inner workings if you may. There's still a lot I don't fully understand about this game, but seeing as how it's gotten the attention of so many people and it's gotten so many people thinking about these issues, wouldn't you say it is an interesting game, in a way?

And with the rape, there isn't any really implied rape but there is a lot of dubious consent which I was NOT okay with.

I just wanted to add my POV as someone who finished this game, liked it and still think about it and analyze it a lot. It isn't a typical romance game. It's a game about 6 sadistic disturbed brothers and a human girl who gets mixed up in their horrible lives. It isn't for everyone, but I wish people wouldn't just say it's a horrible game without having played it, or even tried to look at it properly :)