Discussion in 'PC/Console Game Discussion' started by Jason Lutes, Dec 7, 2012.
If it did, I missed it. Sorry, and.. that's a bummer.
I don't know if it's "confirmed". It's something I think I've seen in my games, but that doesn't mean it actually happened. =)
Wow, the non Campaign game is sure different.
I have 2 level 10+ heros, and a level 6, am up to tier 3 units, over 30 provinces, and have not even seen one of my 3 opponents yet....
A "very big" world? Because it never fails for me to find an AI opponent once I move beyond the first 12-15 provinces. Of course, I've only played 5 non-campaign games so far. My experience may be a fluke.
Big or large, I can't remember which...
Recently I've been generating a ton of maps in an effort to make a swordsman start work. Just now, I got the exact same map I'd gotten yesterday. (It was pretty distinctive with almost all swamps and 3 visible resources in the second ring.) So I'm guessing the maps aren't truly randomized; it looks like there's a finite number and when the game "generates" a map it's actually choosing a map from a database. Weird.
What difficulty are you playing? I ask because in the couple of Beginner games I've played, the AI could barely get beyond the first ring.
This makes me sad! And it's especially weird, given how many unbalanced starting positions I've had to deal with.
No. Otherwise it would be impossible to add new sites and races into the game.
Having worked on some random generators it seems more likely that it just throws up familiar patterns in sections of the map occasionally because of how the generator works.
I mean in Eador's case there is clearly code to bunch swamps, hills and forests together across multiple hexes and also I suspect some code that tries to ensure an even 'progression' of resources (the 'starting resources - horse, iron, redwood tend to be found in abundance the early 'rings'). Put things like that together with a tile based sytem (the underlying hills and forests are clearly 2D tiles of some nature) and you steer away from 'pure' randomness towards a system where recognisable 'chunks' will seem to recur.
Hooray! I won my first game on Expert w/out using any mission-critical reversions! (I did have 10 reversions thanks to often using the combat auto-resolve feature and reverting if I thought the result was excessively punishing.) I played on a larger map (Big, I think) with only 2 more opponents so I was expecting a long, epic game between huge empires. What I got instead was a game that took about as long as a game on an "Average" map: everyone merely created tunnels through neutrals in order to reach their opponents. So there were many neutral provinces that were simply too tough for anyone to take, even at the end of the game.
"Here there be dragons". Literally.
Also, I managed my first alliance with the elves. Wow. They are seriously a game-changer. They're not what I was expecting, though. Their tier 1 units are fucking fantastic.... but they're more expensive than most tier 2 units, both initially and in upkeep. However, once I was able to afford them, my strategy turned into "all archers, all the time." You're a mage trained in magic? That's nice. Have 4 elves. You're a commander specializing in melee attacks? Have 10 elves, a healer, and this centaur I found in the woods for your frontline meatshield. You're a scout and don't need more ranged attacks? I beg to differ. Have a bunch of elves.
By the way, another thing my latest victory taught me was the importance of +population growth buildings. (namely: stables) I had a lot of rough terrain so I was building a lot of "roads via stables" in my empire. By about turn 50 I was noticing that my "road" provinces were way outperforming my non-road provinces thanks to the higher populations. So I dropped stables in all my non-plains provinces, and the result was staggering. It requires a huge upfront cost; stables aren't cheap. But the result was so powerful I'm beginning to think that putting stables even in plains provinces is a good idea.
I put stables everywhere because sometimes you just need to move your scout ten tiles in one turn.
I'm still playing the slow unlock campaign so its likely I'm missing some stuff but so far there appears to be, in the normal unlimited blueprint buildings, an economic trinity for your interior provinces (deputy house, granary, mill/mine/sawmill) and a border province trinity (storehouse, outpost, library/pub) for anywhere likely to be attacked. The pub building doesn't seem that useful to a good player as most of the time I can clear my population into super positive mood territory with rituals, random events and a few province wide stronghold buildings. I imagine that it comes into it's own if you are playing a more villainous type though as most of those rituals seem to ruin the population's mood. There are a couple of special case buildings like the limited blueprints that are upgrades of one of the standard buildings (but can occasionally be worth putting down as well as a regular version of the building like a mine and an ancient mine) and the shipyard which is mostly used to jump behind enemy lines and cut out attacking a bunch of hard guard stacks/neutral bastards.
So far the toughest fights I've found have been the top tier of opponent in the arena location but that's mainly because the campaign hasn't unlocked any level 4 unit recruiting opportunities yet.
Elves are fantastic. Without high Diplomacy, getting their quest is kind of a pain since you need need to have really good karma. I usually don't bother unless their province is safely behind my lines.
I've been experimenting with larger maps & more opponents. (Very large or Big maps, 7-8 opponents) One kinda cool effect that I hadn't anticipated is that having more opponents in the game causes the price of any 1st tier resource (iron, redwood, horses, and to a lesser extent mandrake) to skyrocket almost immediately. If I'm iron-less and I delay buying the forge until, say, turn 20, the forge costs 100 gold. (up from 60... all because it requires 1 iron.)
Without diplomacy, I consider the elves pretty much unobtainable. By the time I've raised my karma to 50, I can guarantee that all elves will have been conquered. Fortunately, I always start with a scout, and I always prioritize getting diplomacy up to 2 in order to bribe free settlements & nomads, as needed. If I stumble across elves, it's not much bother to bump diplomacy up to level 3.
By the way.... I'm finding the provincial guards you get from slingers to be essential. Their larger spotting range is proving to be invaluable. It does mean that I don't have much flexibility in my tier 1 though... I always get barbarians (they're the only T1 units I can use for early game expansion) and slingers (for the provincial defenders).
"Hey.... when you left our home province 20 turns ago... didn't you leave with a full complement of 5 barbarians?"
"Nope! I've had these 3 zombies with me since day 1. You must be misremembering."
I'm a streamer from russian community of Eador and i will to do stream of Eador: Genesis for english community of Eador.
Stream will be there: http://twitch.tv/dedmihai on sunday at 15:00 GMT
I'm coming back to this game and need to be pointed to some help, either in this 15-page thread or elsewhere (youtube?). I played a bit of the tutorial shortly after release and then got stuck and stopped trying. Last night I booted it up again and tried a non-campaign game, and fairly quickly found no way to advance -- every place to explore or move to would kick my ass. I'm playing as a Warrior against two AI on a small map with exploration and diplomacy off. I set myself and the two AI to 'beginner.'
Suggestions you veterans you?
Explore the provinces that you have already conquered. Usually there are quite a few hidden locations in your home province that may have easy enemies. If you have not done so yet kit out your warrior with gear/spells. Even a basic starter chainmail makes a huge difference.
Edit: Just read that you have exploration off. Why would you ever do that? So it's basically save money then to buy better troops/gear/buildings. Don't be afraid to disband your units if you are in the red on the statistics screen.
No Turin "exploration off" means that there is no fog of war, not that you can't explore provinces. If anything I'd suggest it to brand new players to be able to gauge how they are doing in relation to their AI opponents.
Yeah, that was why. I'd seen somewhere that newbs should go without fog of war. But thanks Turin for the suggestions. I was only exploring within the home province a little bit, my HoMM training has me wanting to venture out quickly.
Yeah, you can't REX in Eador much if at all. It's a little more like King's Bounty, where you're looking for fights that you can win to get stronger to take on the next set of fights to win to get stronger to...
Actually, you can REX. It requires use of the Scout's Diplomacy ability. If you get lucky, you can spread across the map surprisingly quickly.
Which leads me to the first bit of advice for Tyler: your first hero should be a scout. Always. Your second hero can be whatever you feel like, but that first one has to be a scout.
That's what I've found to be the biggest downside to this game: the beginning part of the game is the same every damn time: scout with barbarians. It doesn't matter if you want to play good eventually, it doesn't matter if you're tired of the scout. You pretty much have to use scout + barbarians to make progress.
Hah. On another forum I hear " You pretty much have to use warrior + brigands" to make progress.
Interesting game with commander until T2 army(~15 turns): https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74473397/babarianhealer_4.mp4
Actually, you're right. The brigands route is another viable option, if you're willing to go whole hog on the necromancy thing.
But barbs are much easier.
And yeah, I've seen theoretical games where folks manage to do things *just* right and progress with something like a commander. But here in the real world, where we're often playing while sipping some wine, or listening to a documentary or something, we make mistakes. And using a commander for your first hero (or doing some other unorthodox start) requires flawless execution. I'm just not that good, and I never will be.
Eh I almost always start with a commander and play on expert. If you don't want to play with "back one turn" I think it's a difficult start because if you make a mistake and take a wipe, you're in much worse shape than any of the other heroes in terms of replacement cost. Good luck if you accidentally lose all your swords and healers early on. But then those games are also interesting as you will have to try to claw your way back from a large early disadvantage...
I always start with a scout + magic missiles for the first few battles. Then I try and grab swordsmen to absorb hits while my scout pretty much 75% solo kills everything.
Once the scout gets double shot, most of the arrow skills and one of the top tier bow & arrow sets he is an absolute monster and you can do that by level 10. The scout falls down a little in the endgame though where he doesn't have the overall killing power of the mage or commander, nor the sheer endurance of the warrrior.
I'm still playing the campaign weeks later because the thing is endless.
I don't know, i think what warrior+robbers with later solo warrior is much easier, especially for new players.
I don't. My scout + barbs can take down anything in the first ring easily, and most things in the second ring. A warrior can't handle barbarians, spiders, or anything with poison.
*shrug* Still, if it works for you, more power to you.
I still can't... do anything. I explore my home province and either find nothing or sites that will likely result in wipes. Never have I found a TBS that so kicks my ass.
I love it.
That video were from 5-video-pack. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/74473397/barbarian_healer.rar Very interesting second start - player lost 2 heroes in first 5 turns and still got T2 in good amount of time.
Thanks for the help folks. Finally having some success with scout+swordsman (and a barbarian thrown in for good measure):
He hasn't gone far from the home province and progress is still painstakingly slow. But at least I'm not seeing full party wipes in battles that are supposed to be even.
Change barbarian and archer for healers - you will see tremendous boost in defensive power.
Also upgrade those puny magic sparks to magic arrows asap.
Beginner only :\.
Overall fatigue better. 3 Fatigue let you attack 3 barbarians + shaman. They have 12 stamina, fatigue remove 5, attack, counterattack - and they start to get penalty to stats.
3-4 fatigue let you make early attack on knight or executor (inquisition or knight order in first circle)
Ok, on stream was not so much people from english community, and this what i have:
Part 1: http://en.twitch.tv/dedmihai/b/368365286#
Part 2: http://en.twitch.tv/dedmihai/b/368420347#
My next stream http://en.twitch.tv/dedmihai will be on sunday at 15:00 GMT
I can answer any your questions about game mechanics and best tactics when streaming
Cool. Thanks! I found your last stream really enlightening... I recently won my first expert game w/out using a scout for my first hero. It was a really nice change of pace.
Scout with metal wall video
Alright. So I plonked down the $6 to buy this yesterday, and started a new campaign on Beginner. Played it for about 5 hours straight until I finally finished the first map. Wait, that was only the TUTORIAL?! Holy shit. I did explore every province to 100% and fought just about every battle I could, ended the map with over 50k in gold and 8k gems, was able to beat a Dragon solo with my level 26 Scout (I love double shot) and gained a lot of experience with the game's mechanics, so I think it was still worth it. I also got Poison Arrows and a Centaur Bow pretty early on which helped immensely.
However, this is where I think the tutorial fails. When I started my first real shard, I was completely unprepared for an enemy that was actively going to be invading me at about 40 turns in. I was doing the same things I did in the tutorial (move to province, explore, fight, level up, buy buildings, buy troops, find loot, etc, rinse and repeat). Due to the nature of the way I played in the tutorial, this means that I would consistently lose troops, or they would be low on HP and I'd burn 5 or so turns letting them heal. Again, I wasn't expecting a Warrior AND a Wizard with pretty substantial armies to come steamrolling in at 40 turns. By that time, I had only taken one province and was just doing my usual explore thing to level up and get loot. When you contrast to the way I played the tutorial, 40 turns to me is nothing. I probably had close to 10,000 turns when I completed the tutorial. I guess it's because it's more like HoMM 3, where you never have to worry that someone is going to come after you. It's more of an RPG in the tutorial.
So, to get to my point, what should I be doing to stop from getting my ass killed every time? I like the Scout, so I'll probably stick with him. Any help as to what I should be doing when I first start would be great, especially advice as to how to best utilize my turns.
Separate names with a comma.