A minority opinion expressed directly and without personal attacks becomes "hectoring", and thus through the magic of synonyms "bullying". But I never intended it so, and yet you managed to feel hectored by it despite my posts explicitly excluding directions for behavior or anything much more than descriptions that, at worst, could be described as terse and pedantic. But something was threatened or insulted or triggered or irritated or stirred or something by their existence, and here we are. I did intend to offer a somewhat clinical assessment of the choices I think people made because I think seeing them from that angle tends to lead to reassessment even if we don't agree on the desired end state; as you know, just talking about a thing in clear terms makes it a different thing. Is that inherently hectoring because it's not softpedaled? Like I said, I don't have a clear opinion on the right and wrong of what happened with Gus or I would have said something at the time. I just want to be clear on what this is and what this isn't, from my perspective. That was my point. What you do know is what he did about it, and what you can plainly see is the community reaction to it, which is the previously mentioned mixture of vaguely articulated guilt and scorn with a frisson of passive-aggression that characterizes this thread (cue the genius who always says identifying passive-aggression is itself passive-aggressive). Why that should prompt extended apologia of behaviors that would plainly be recognized as a hazing ritual by any anthropologist observing this group's own best-light descriptions of the behaviors is not hard to realize: because hazing builds a bridge to bullying, which is something only bad people do in the Bioware alignment system that is the media narratives of these things. My point is that good, bad, it doesn't actually matter. I just want to be clear on what actually seems to have happened. Well, I don't really agree. He made his dislike of teasing abundantly clear, for one thing, and in the other, someone's feelings are only part of the equation depending on what you mean by OK. Well, that's where we differ. Hurting people's feelings is something I try to do less of than I once did, but it really depends on the situation, isn't much of a measure of wrongness, and frankly is sometimes really hard to avoid in the heat of the moment when adults speak directly. I certainly don't think the hazing bars here at BF are unreasonable on average, but I also think they have to be clearly identified when they have a strong effect, and then people talk about it as if it's just a bunch of separate things with no coherent effect on the recipient. As a corollary, I also think it's important to identify when it fails to have any discernible effect despite extensive, thread-destroying effort, as has happened numerous times with toxic posters. I don't really know what more I can say about this before it becomes even farther removed from my original, relatively simple post.