General Relationship Thread

I don't think this is all that unusual, I felt the same way when my dad's older sister died, I hadn't seen her in years, and I was more concerned about how my dad felt about it.

Today is my anniversary of my marriage. I still feel weird about it since I really don't give a hoot about it; we put more effort into celebrating our dating anniversary. All that stuff leading up to marriage was important too!

I'm 40 years old and have no idea what "being in love" really means, or if I've ever felt it.

Really? That's sad. I'm not trying to pity you or put you down or anything...it's just a shame. I think that falling in love changes your perspective on life. it's a big part of dropping egoism and realizing a deeper sense of connection with another human being. Familial love can do that to some degree, of course, as can friendship. But romantic love is a wonderful thing. Someone will no doubt pop in to say it's just chemicals, but that grossly undersells it. When you are really in love, it's much more than hormones. It changes your view of the world, of the other, and of the self. I've felt it a few times, but in most cases it was really more of infatuation. When you say 'being in love' you probably mean something deeper. I've felt that twice, and it is pretty damned amazing every time.

I'm working out in NY this week and the one side thing I wanted to do while I am here is "see about a girl", in particular a girl I've known for a few years but always in separate cities (she was in Vegas now NY, I am in SF). We've had a couple casual dates over the years, lots of flirting and innuendo, but nothing hawt and heavy. For the last month or so I decided it is time to make the move past the little things and see where it goes.

Spent five or six hours yesterday walking around the city, BSing, laughing, doing all the silly shit that likeminded people do. We're both finance nerds, both glad to have left where we grew up (Vegas), have some shared friends/memories, etc. End of the night though, turns out she's with someone for the last couple years now. I didn't even know!

It crushed me pretty good. To be topical with the above, I wasn't in love with her but could easily see that happening quickly should things progress. She really is one of the most exceptional women I've ever been acquainted with. So that sucked. I guess I'm just writing this here because there really is no other good venue for it, but it's healthy to get things like this out. No drinking alone this week, that's for sure.

Yikes. That blows.

shift6, that was a sympathy like. Insert platitude about fish, seas, etc.

In the meantime...<sends hugs>

I'm curious about how you felt specifically about the fact that you spent (most of?) the get-together before finding this out. On one hand, I think most people would see a multi-year relationship as being a pretty significant event and would tend to bring it up rather quickly when becoming re-acquainted with someone.

When I was single I would have found the situation you describe somewhat frustrating. If I was going to hang out with somebody I had potential romantic interest in and didn't find out that they were in a relationship until the end of the get-together I would at the very least have been let down that I spent several hours wondering internally whether there was any chance for a spark only to find out the answer was "no because I'm with somebody."

Now before all of the more right thinking individuals excoriate me for being a sexist jerk, please understand that I'm describing my likely response from 20 years ago in the nineties when I was a republican. :)

At the risk of digging myself even deeper, I do think women underestimate the degree to which single men getting together with female friends are very likely interested in them romantically. Please do not interpret this as a criticism of women. There is no reason that women should have to respond any differently even if this is the case.

Having said that I think there are probably millions of hours spent by millions of guys interacting with women they are trying to make a favorable impression on the theory that they would like to date these women only to find that it's a non starter.

I'm certain that this is the guy's fault in every way...I'm just saying.

(Please don't hurt me forum.)

And actually there is probably something very beneficial about internet dating at least in terms of "relationship baseline efficiency" </armchaireconomist>

When you go on a date based on meeting somebody at an online dating site at least everybody knows that the purpose is to see if you want to date. There is none of this uncertainty about where everybody's head is at :)

I agree with Spoofy. Given the history of flirting, she should have told Shift before the get-together that she was in a relationship.

Even if the girl had no idea Shift was hoping for anything beyond a friendly get-together, I'm surprised her significant other didn't come up in conversation at all. I mean, when you talk to people, don't you talk about the stuff you're involved in, people included? Anyone who talks to me for five minutes is going to hear about my husband, my nieces and nephew, and my cats, because they're the highlights I tend to hit first. Weird.

Husband? Oh...well...excuse me....I have a...thing...

I'm with everyone else in thinking that sucks and also I think she had to have been intentionally keeping that information from you. Not lying, but there would have to have been conversations where that would have come up and she must have instead danced around it. I wonder if she likes having you as the "back burner" guy. There waiting to come in the game if what she has isn't working out. Obviously, I have no idea, but I ran into this many times. Most of those times, the girl would eventually go out with me and then go back to the original douche. I assumed it was, "Yikes, this is what else is out here? No thanks." :) However, I was pretty insecure and smothery in those days so I would have not stuck with me either. I am so much better with the ladeez after over a decade of marriage. Also, at 43, I really just grew into my looks in the last 5 years. By the time I am 50, I am going to be irresistible.

When I was doing the online dating thing I manned up and did all the asking out because That's The Way It Is but I still feel, on an intellectual and philosophical level, that if women want to be perceived as equal then they need to accept more responsibility for their own lives. Because traditional dating roles lead directly to traditional family roles. A relationship that starts off with the man taking all the risk, making all the decisions and incurring all the cost is going to have to change at some point if it's ever going to become an equal relationship. The reason women sit around waiting for men to make the first move is that they can get away with it, it's not like we like putting ourselves out there.

The fundamental issue is that shift6, as a single man, is constantly evaluating women as potential mates because he has to, if he ever wants to find one. Back when women were traded for goats, the lack of a ring meant "available", now it's not so clear. A secondary problem is that any woman who does mark herself as available (ie on Facebook) will get hit on relentlessly, because some guys would rather not waste the six hours walking around to find out she's not interested.

Is it suspicious that she waited so long to mention her boyfriend? Absolutely. Maybe she just enjoyed the harmless flirting and then shut it down when it got too close to becoming serious, maybe she isn't that committed to her boyfriend and didn't bring it up while she was still evaluating the new guy, or maybe it's just a lie that she uses to turn guys down. Doesn't really matter, that's how the game is played. But you can still be disappointed in her for playing it that way.

edit: PS I put the odds that she was legitimately oblivious to any potential romantic interest below 10%.

You'd think so, yeah. Doesn't always work out that way . . .

shift6, babe, you know I'm down to drink with you anytime.
/giant hug Sorry to hear that happened, though. :<

Update: today's conversation with Mom (last in-person conversation before she flies back east): 60% torrent of vitriol about Aaron, 34% torrent of vitriol about my relationship with Aaron and related decisions, 4% torrent of vitriol about other aspects of my life, 1% unrelated comments about Palo Alto, and 1% sensible statements. Not bad, by comparison.

She kept reminding me that "when you find someone to spend a significant portion of your life with, you don't just get them, you get the family." Since my parents and my boyfriend hate each other so passionately, I'm not sure who to focus on as the agent of change...and frankly, my heart really isn't in it.

Dude, he merits an entire torrent? I would have thought maybe a rivulet of vitriol, perhaps a sprinkling of spite, a soupcon of disdain. But a full-on torrent of vitrol? What in the world did Aaron do?

So many hugs, Speak With Bread. <3

He probably wore the plaid belt.

man, just let them dislike each other.
it's like a dog and a vacuum cleaner. you can try slowly introducing the thing, you can try rushing it over. you can introduce it silently, you can introduce it when it's on.

no matter what, when it's time to clean the carpet, the dog and the vacuum will have this thing against each other. And after a while, all you can do is just ignore it and vacuum the damn carpet because it's gross.

why yes, i am fantastic with analogies


also /hugs

Your mother is bad and should feel bad.

Any way you can get your mom on the TSA watch list? Because then she could stop flying out and driving you crazy...

That's it, I'm switching to Team Mom.

Also, while yes, when you get particularly shmoopy with someone, you also get to add their family to the equation, it is pretty fucking clear his family isn't the issue. So I presume her saying that is basically threatening Aaron with ... dealing with her?

Basically, ran his mouth. A lot. And not in ways Mom approved of.

She didn't mention that part. He's...let's see...manipulating me, putting words in my mouth and thoughts in my head, has a dangerous amount of power over me, and is puppeting me to work in his own self-interest and not finish my degree. (All of those were direct quotes.) Add to that the fact that he's not willing to get drawn into an argument with Mom, especially when I've warned him what it'll be about, and you get one giant ball of hate that only makes limited sense when you've spent more than five minutes with the two of us.

First of all, giggles at "shmoopy." And...maybe? I think it was a threat for me that this sort of ranting is going to continue as long as he and I have anything whatsoever to do with each other. No big surprise there, really.

So... she doesn't know that there's SOMEONE ELSE? xD

Major props to Aaron in all this for dealing with jerk parents and seemingly being reasonable towards them in all this. At least, that's how you're painting him and he seems a reasonable sort to me so I assume he's not being an instigator or a pedant at them.

Also wtf does she have an issue with Palo Alto for? Outside of it's not near Baltimore?

From what I've heard, her mom would probably try to have her committed and shipped back east so she can be under house arrest 24/7...

No, she's met him and that's it. And that is how it will STAY. Don't even think about it, Alli. :P

Pedant, yes, but not to an extent that I'd consider fight-worthy. Instigator...I don't think so, but a lot of the conversations that are at issue here happened while I was out cold. So anything she claims he instigated, I can't trust.

That wasn't part of the vitriol. We were walking around the neighborhood and she occasionally managed to be distracted by some cool tree or something.

Guess that means I need to start planning a rescue mission in case she finds out by accident.

lol projection lol

loooooooooool

Ahem.

My gut says "cut yourself off from your crazy fucking parents" but I know that is way easier said than done, especially when you're still sort of beholden to them for medical insurance and such. What does your sister think of all this?

Honestly all I've thought about is how you got good taste in the menfolk. MMM-HMM.

I wish I could say that's the first time someone's planned an extraction posse for me...

My sister is their perfect child. The family has basically adopted her boyfriend (an exchange student from her engineering school), so she really doesn't understand what all the fuss is about with mine. When I told her I might not be coming home for Christmas due to medical issues, her first reaction was to call my mother and let her know, which precipitated the entire holiday-related shitstorm. All she knows right now, and all she's likely to be able to process, is "Mom and Amanda aren't getting along again, hope my sis gets better soon."

I did kind of luck out there. ^_^ Frankly, I'm surprised I haven't gotten a "why not dump Aaron and date the other guy instead?" conversation yet.

"Oh, er, hi Mom! I was just getting over Aaron like you said!"

Well, if nothing else, you should perhaps not worry too much that they'll take out their pissiness at you out on her. Given the maturity level they're operating at, they might try to use her as a game piece in their fucked up bullshit, but I seem to recall you being worried they'd take it out on her.