General Relationship Thread

Always accept the possibility of catastrophic failure, that way you won't be surprised if it occurs. The myth that "there's someone for everyone" often leads to thoughts of entitlement - not everyone winds up in a relationship. Not everyone should be in a relationship. If you believe that there's someone for everyone, and that everyone deserves a happy relationship, then that by logic must also apply to serial killers and cannibals and Methodists.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but bullshit. If you want it, then try for it. If you don't think you're capable of it, then try anyway. Don't fear the pain of failure, it's the only thing we truly learn from.

I disagree with your statement that giving false hope is never a good thing, but there's no need to argue about that here. Finding a relationship with someone that is rewarding is not a false hope. TONS of people do it. Very few things in life are certain, but that's not a good reason to avoid or fail to pursue them. I know you aren't suggesting anything of the sort. I'm just saying I'm not sure what your point of order is meant to suggest in this case. A good relationship isn't magic. The difficulty is that both people have to be committed to it, and really feel the other person. If both people are truly committed to making it work, it often can.

It's not that in particular that I fear. Rather, the problem is that it involves other people. I am terribly, desperately scared of hurting other people, and since I have no clue what I am doing when I act socially I tend to avoid it as much as possible.

And as stated, I'm not even sure I actually want it. I may just be enamored with the idealized image I tend to have of other people's relationships.

You never know until you try~ No, seriously, try. Do not shy away from this thing that you might want and like.
Like, okay. My current boyfriend is absolutely terrified of hurting me, but he does it alllll the time. What you gotta realize is that some people just make mistakes in dealing with other people. It happens. What you do is apologize and learn from the mistake. Because that's a totally cool and okay thing to do.

Do you sweat battery acid or fart plutonium clouds? Trust me, aside from that it's pretty hard to accidentally hurt people beyond repair unintentionally. People are resilient. Comes with being squishy and inconsistent, they bounce back from pretty much anything.

But if you have reservations, just go with what makes you happy - if that requires stepping out of your comfort zone experimentally once in a while, that's not a bad thing.

Thanks! I'm now modifying my Chaosium implants sheet. :D

Was this the same one that tracked you down on that other site (not qt3) after we jokingly used your real name after you told us not to for fear of your crazy-ex tracking you down?

'Cause that was good times.

I realize it is not something you'd usually do, but I feel that the same thing applies to annoyance as well. Why would someone accept my quirks and neuroses when there are people all around who are much more balanced and normal?

Basically, someone would do that because he/she likes other qualities about you and is willing to put up with your quirks. Oddly enough, when you fall in love with someone, a lot of those quirks become endearing rather than annoying. Of course, that can be the danger in some cases, since after the honeymoon period you can start to see that you can't really live with those quirks. But in many cases, the relationship simply blossoms and those quirks remain something you just love about the other person, or (if something negative that the person wants to fix) something you help the person deal with.

I guess that is what I just don't understand about love, then.

Because no one is the same. People connect with others for all kinds of reasons and just as they have some asset that you lack or are less good at (like "normalcy") you have something others don't and that is why people will want to talk to you.

You don't have to go straight to love, enjoying someone's company or having a good conversation can be very fulfilling as well. Start small, there's no need to rush.

Random relationship thought: I have a sneaking suspicion that most people aren't worth a damn in long-term relationships until they are in their 30s. There are exceptions, of course, but I think it takes a certain amount of maturity to get the perspective one needs to make a serious LTR work.

Also, re. the closure thing: I suspect that one of my exes wants nothing to do with me. My current partner from time to time encourages me to try to check in with my ex to see how she's doing, but it's clear to me that she doesn't want to hear from me (I don't even know at this point how to reach her), and that's okay. When we were together, she was going through serious depression. We finally broke up (long overdue) when she decided to go to Seattle for grad school and I decided not to go along because I knew the relationship was doomed. She had a hard time up there but eventually got her masters and a good job. Though she's never said so, I recognize that she probably views me as a big part of the problem she was having at the time, so who am I to force myself on her and re-open whatever wounds she thinks I caused? All I can do is hope that I was as supportive as I could be when we were together and believe that we didn't work out not because either of us were bad people but because some people just aren't a good fit.

Stop thinking like this right goddamn now. Seriously. If there are things about yourself that you don't like - being overly shy, or having a shorter fuse than you'd like - then by all means, take steps to adjust that. But do it for YOU, not because you think no one will love you if you don't.

Because they are really into crazy - look at the posts on the last page. There are people like madkevin and myself around. But I somehow do not think that this is a problem in your case. Just read madkevins post and compare ! Sorry, madkevin, but I hope it is ok to point that out.

Because eveyone has quirks of some kind, there'll be someone out there who finds your particular brand of crazy endearing. You've just got to hope that you like their crazy as much!

Totally OK. If you aren't sick of the old man giving you more advice, you whippersnappers, relationships are like this:

Remember CDs? They were round pieces of plastic that people used to by music on. About a million years ago, people used to have these laying around in case they wanted to listen to something that wasn't on the radio. Crazy, right? Anyway, there's a point in every relationship where you stop having "yours" and "hers" CDs, and you just mix 'em all up.

You don't have to like all of your partner's music, but you DO have to respect their choices. For example, my wife didn't spend her teenage years listening to punk rock and metal, but she certainly understands the awesomeness of The Clash. And I get why she was a little 10,000 Maniacs / R.E.M. / Tori Amos fangirl. It's not what I chose to listen to (except R.E.M.) as a kid, but I see the importance of it in her life and understand it. I appreciate it. And there's some shit we don't agree on. I've never liked Abba, even ironically. Ever. And she's not gonna sit around listening to Can or Neu! anytime soon. And that's OK too.

Your quirks and personality traits are like your CD collection. A partner doesn't have to like everything you like, but your CDs have to mingle and coexist. They must be compatible. That's how you take two smaller music collections and make one bigger, way more awesome one.

Next time on Old People Relationship Advice: I compare my marriage to Voltron!

Voltron makes a better casual dating analogy - the more you can hook up, the cooler it gets!

But that is exactly what I've experienced so far. I know it probably isn't true, but it is extremely hard to ignore.

It's a nice analogy and it definitely makes sense. But to try and fit me into the analogy, I feel that my music collection is incomparably bad to other's, and not worthy of being a part of a mixed collection.

(Oh, and please let me know if I am being too annoying. I know I have a bad habit of talking too much about how little I like myself.)

And you don't want to just pull the blazing sword out right at the beginning; you want to wait for the right time.

You really need to make sure you wait for the appropriate moment to yell "And I'll form the head!" too.

Who cares? It's YOURS. Own it. You can't be happy worrying about what other people think about... well, fucking anything, really. Here's some more free advice: You think you're fucked up? N-word, please. Guess who else thinks that? EVERYBODY. Everybody in the entire history of the world except for sociopaths think they're fucked up. And yet, all these fucked up people manage to come together* to make weird fucked up little babies, and the cycle begins anew.

* Get it?

Somewhere out there, there is a hipster that's into that sort of thing.

Also, in a less snarky note: I totally get where you're coming from with the whole "what the fuck is this love shit, I enjoy your company?" thing. In my case it's more just been a knowledge that I was misplacing names on emotions, and just being an oddball. But you can totally enjoy someone's company enough to spend a long time with them, and figure out that the odd reason you stay with them even when they annoy the shit out of you by covering your side of the bed with unfolded laundry every night is the whole love thing.

I still have issues with family-style love though, since I grew up with just my mother and I totally don't 'get' brother/sister kind of relationships or family gatherings. It's a learning thing if you missed part of growing up. You just have to sort of force yourself into trying it out and figuring out when it is and isn't working.

But I don't understand how people are able to put themselves in front of others. I mean, I understand that it is what we're supposed to do, biologically, but I seem to always worry a lot more about what happens to all other people than me.

a) You're codependent. See a therapist.

b) Stop doing that. Yes, it's more complicated than that (see step a for proper instructions on how to proceed) but the gist of it boils down to "stop thinking that way".

Seriously? Spoiler tags for my odd life:

Oh, that part's easy. Any time anybody asks you to do something, just say yes. You'll get into tons of trouble, but you'll have a way better time.

I'm very much a loner-type, and getting married was a really bizarre and terrifying experience. I don't regret it at all, but I'm with you, man.

People think I'm kidding when I say punk rock* saved my life, but it really did. Because everytime I see a social maladroit I think, there but for the grace of God and upper-register hearing loss go I.

Look, there's no way you are in any worse shape than I was. Let's go down the 80s nerd checklist, shall we? Coke-bottle, bulletproof-thick glasses? Check. Braces? Check. Fat? You know it. Awkward? Yes. Beaten as a child, with the attendant personality problems that come with that? Check. (Did I mention I'm Italian?) Bullied for years? Yep. Use of sarcasm as a defense? Of course. I was like the mould from which other nerds were made. And that's pre-internet culture, kids, so I didn't have some awesome BBS to hang out in or MMO to find other lonely geeks out there. I had my immediate peers and the occasional copy of Dragon Magazine to get me through.

But luckily my nerd obsessions also spilled over into music, and you can't be an underground music fan without putting yourself out there, especially back then. If I wanted to see the bands I liked, I had to travel to other cities, go to clubs that look like the bathroom from Trainspotting and mingle with actual human people. I got lucky, in a way, because the underground music scene in the 80s was very collaborative - the scene was supported by people coming together to make it happen, be it by putting on house shows in basements or getting the word out on college radio or writing zines or whatever. Self-expression was the engine - standing by the sidelines was for poseurs.

So punk pulled me out of my 1st edition AD&D shell** and helped me find myself as a person. I'm not saying you need to move to Brooklyn and start blogging about the latest Sub Pop group. What I am saying is you need to find your own punk rock. Find the thing that you can only experience by pushing yourself. Otherwise, all of your stories will be about you sitting in front of a computer, reading about somebody else's crazy fucking life on a webforum.

* And weed, but that's another story.

** I made my saving throw against loneliness.

I grew up military. We're taught the exact opposite. Any time someone even begins to muse about something, you have a thing you need to be doing.

Only suckers volunteer <3

Taking your example literally, not only does my fiancee not like the music I listen to, she thinks it's awful and is not herself very into music. There was a time that she worried that would be problematic for our relationship, because I care more about music than pretty much anything else, but I find it's actually a boon. If, for instance, she did care about music and was enthusiastic about, e.g., Gotye, it would be a source of contention. But I don't mind that she listens to top-40 and finds it pleasant enough, nor do I mind that she cannot stand most of what I listen to (especially since she very gamely attended a Xiu Xiu concert with me once). My taste is also a source of amusement for her, as, for instance, when I informed her that I was familiar with and more or less enjoyed a band whose music was used on Homeland to torture a guy (Gridlink, if you're curious).

So, to extrapolate that into more general advice, I would not worry if you are involved with somebody who does not share all your interests, or even your most serious interests. I think there's a common misconception that the right person for you is one who shares every one of your interests, which I think would end up being incredibly maddening because goddammit how could anybody seriously like fucking Gotye?

So when you got hit in the head by a pair of steel-toed boots from some idiot jumping off the stage at a Ministry show and collapsed into the pit and a girl wearing a Residents shirt pulled you out of the dogpile and you said "Hey, a Residents shirt!" and she said "You know who The Residents are?" and I said "Fuck yes!" and she said "Holy crap, you're bleeding!" and I said "What do you mean?" and I put my hand up to my head and saw blood on it and she said "Jesus god, let's go to the bathroom!" and she dragged me into the women's bathroom and dabbed my forehead and said "Hey, do you want to get out of here and grab a coffee?" which, granted, eventually ended with one of us getting hurt emotionally, you would have said "Oh, no.... I have a thing I need doing" instead of "Yes!" Because she was really, really cute in that Residents shirt.

Yeah, I probably would have passed on the coffee due to the head wound.

edit: less snarky and more helpful version: as time goes on, people figure out when a situation is worth going along with, and when it's just a shit idea. I've mostly said yes to new experiences, and thankfully said no to things that would only wind up with a shattered credit rating and shitty memories. Bullets dodged, as it were. You should totally say yes to most things though. Just.. sensibly.

edit 2: topically, I said yes to rebuilding our kickstart system, and it's just shattered dreams and hatred of humanity all the way down today <3

That sounds like excellent advice, thank you.

I wonder what I should be doing ...

* edit: I mean, as in actually doing.

A book with that title would sell a lot of copies.

I'm also working on a brilliant idea of Harlequin Romance style romance books with a D&D theme. First title: 18 Charisma.

Introspection time. Find things you enjoy and like to know more about. Then go see those things and meet the other people doing so. Art, music, historical plumbing systems, whatever. There's totally a group of people into pretty much everything. And I found it helps to use your forum experience: nobody likes someone who rolls up knowing everything and declaring shit. Show up, learn, comment, and bonds form.

This all hopes that you live somewhere with things you are interested in nearby. I find music nerds to be the most accepting people and more than social if you ask them about other music to recommend. Motherfuckers love to chat about their music collections and give advice. I don't believe historical plumbing systems will yield much success, but there is apparently a plumbing museum like two blocks from my house. People are in to everything.

I still buy CDs and you can't stop me! And the first real CD I ever bought (not counting the Destiny's Child CDs because that was just a phase) was Under the Pink by Tori Amos.

And for everyone who hates Gotye, stop what you're doing and listen to this:


Edit: It might not change your minds btw, I just wanted to post a counter for fucking Now You're Just Somebody blah blah blah

I'm not listening to medieval goatse music.

Still loathsome.