Discussion in 'The League Of Extraordinary Game Players' started by cnahr, Mar 30, 2012.
Exited the old game and joined the new one. Random Civ.
Frontier is up to 2.5 megs after the reversion and its return to my turn, which is past the threshold where I can load it. If we need to have me drop out of the game, I can. :(
Unfortuantely it's as far back as GMR will let me revert it, I'll have to check my local files tonight to see if there's anything in GMR_Archive for Frontier that is smaller. In that case what I'd do is have you guys just submit whatever save files or skip to get back to me, and then upload the last known "good" file as my turn.
Avec Spaceships is started. I went with a Pangaea Plus map for added fun.
As Ethiopia, I dare each of you to found more cities than me, thereby enabling my UA against you. I double dare you!
That generally isn't too hard for most people
Mad Hatter. Well mad hatter really, i looked in mygames/civ5/saves/GMR_Archive, it looks like after turn 22 was when things got out of hand. Please resubmit your turn 22 file manually, or skip your turn (submit anything) and I'll straighten things out when it gets to me.
I'll just kill you before I expand.
Did I miss a new game start again, or is all this confusion over an existing game?
Still hoping to jump in whenever there's a slot available (my personal High School motto -- but for a different reason).
Siam, so I'm playing a Civ designed for a dilpo victory in a MP game. This will be interesting.
It's the same game Nate had to restart due to the bloating issue.
I'd be happy to start a new game that includes you, if there enough players interested in joining. If we get only four humans, I'd add 4 AI players (at King or higher difficulty), as they're working out well in The Fickle Finger of Fate game.
Siam's UA affects city-states, not other civilizations, and kicks buttocks when it comes to city-states. I've always wanted to play them in MP.
If you are adding AI they have to be higher then King. God the AI is still abysmal at the game even after everything they have done.
I'll join so long as you don't add any AI.
I don't understand the aversion some players have towards AI players in Civ V MP games. And I don't buy the argument that they're too easy to eliminate, giving an advantage to those players who start near them. Look at G&K Multiple Turns in which db jumped all over you and ramcat, proving the same can be done to human players. Players have to manage how AI players view them, since they follow an algorithm, an element that's missing from MP games without AI players.
Map styles in which players are completely separated by ocean tiles do not work with AI players in MP games, because it allows those who start next to AIs to take them out without possible retaliation from all other human players until Astronomy's discovered in the Renaissance era. Map styles in which all civs are on the same landmass or separated only by coastal tiles are ideal, such as Pangaea (Plus), which is what The Fickle Finger of Fate used.
Disclaimer: this is all IMO
There are exploits with AI, like selling luxury resources for ridiculous amounts of money. I've also always had an aversion to the AI getting bonuses to make up for lack of intelligence in playing. I understand why they do it, I just don't like it.
These are not exploits. Luxury resources are worth 240 gold. You can't ever get more then that (you can sometimes get less though if they don't like you or are broke). Embassies are worth 25g and Open Borders is technically worth 50g, although I would argue the latter is severely undervalued. Again, these are *not* exploits and you'd be insane to think they are. Stuff does have a value in every game and happiness is a very big deal in Civ. Hell, in a MP game they will probably end up being worth more then 240g.
Also they don't get bonuses on King, although why you would want to play against them without bonuses is absolutely beyond me (different strokes for different folks I guess).
I can't speak for other players, but I would NEVER pay that much unless I was beyond desperate. Especially at the beginning of the game when gold has so much more value as a defensive measure. And the AI ALWAYS gets bonuses (Happiness level for AI is always Chieftain level, if I'm remembering correctly). I'll have to find the article that talked about the hidden bonuses the AI gets all the time. Here's the Civfanatics list of bonuses that the AI gets on top of playing at the Chieftain level.
So I'm "insane," sir. Gibbering mad idiot apparently.
Yes, you are. I'm glad you agree. Even that chart proves my point that at King the AI is almost perfectly equal with the player (you weren't remembering correctly about happiness btw) and doesn't say anything about my point which was playing them at that level is both insane and an exercise in fruition. They need plenty of bonuses because they are predictable and their algorithms are very game-able once you can recognize them, the combat AI is simply the icing on the cake rather then the core reason (which Mysterio has also caught onto).
If you wouldn't pay close to that amount then that's fine, you're never going to get a lux resource off me for gold then. Or wait, should I go and give you free happiness so you can expand faster then I can just because you *think* that's not worth anything special. Lux resources dictate the entire game until you can get past the Renaissance era and reach a lot of the happiness wonders and policies (and even then they are a stop-gap measure and luxuries will always be the better option).
-edit- Apologies if I'm going off a bit brash here, I haven't had my coffee yet and I'm simply trying to argue my opinion :)
Also I could have been confusing Prince and King difficulties aswell (I definitely have been).
I tend to trade luxury for luxury. I don't usually offer gold for luxuries.
And while I pine for a day when an AI can stand up to humans without any bonuses, I do realize that at the current AI level, the game would be incredibly easy without stacking the deck in their favor.
If my civ is at 0 happiness with cities close to population popping and I could afford it (assuming I didn't have a spare luxury resource to trade), I would pay 240 or so gold for a luxury resource, rather than stalling my growth. (I didn't feel this way when I first started playing.) Each happiness translates into an additional population which translates into additional science (always, even more so as the game progresses), and a combination of the other yields in the game via working a tile or populating a building's specialist slot. Arabia's UB (Bazaar) is especially powerful when you consider the "240 gold:1 luxury resource" ratio.
If you are paying another player gold up front for a luxury rather than GPT then you are going to get a rude surprise someday.
If I wanted to play against the AI i would start a singleplayer game, it's faster. I go through the turns per day/reverts, and all the other GMR overhead because I want to play against people who don't get any bonuses to production or extra units but play at a much more sophisticated level than an AI will ever be capable of.
Because someone might take the gold and the DoW to get their lux back? Sure, but that only ever works once in a MP community.
I thought taking someone's unguarded workers would only ever work once in a MP community but I was wrong.
When I was a teenager on a paintball team, I had to get a paintball jersey, and since I was a cool kid I wanted to put deadbuffalo on it, but the cost was per letter, so I just got DB on the back. Yeah, I've heard that one before.
I am willing to offer you a new treaty, I keep Natetown and take your capital.
That was fun. First I unpuppeted Natetown to rush build walls there to increase not only the defensibly, but the garrison ranged attack. I lost a bunch of units here, but the Huns concentrated their forces here which allowed me to enact my plan. Since old Great Generals weren't providing a bonus, I bunched them up by friendship city, which was adjacent to Atilla's Court, and used their citadels to take land from around the Hunic captital , including a luxury to offset those I was trading with the Huns. With the citadels established, I'd be able to bombard the Huns from safety. This worked extra well since the Huns religion provides them a bunch of bonuses by their capital. I think when I looked at it one of his Musketmen had a strength of 50 or so in one spot. Once I got 2 trebuchets in firing range, with supporting crossbowmen, pikemen, and knights, and the majority of the Hunic army concentrated on the hard nut of Natetown, it was an easy exercise. I think Schempp realized what I was up to by the time the second citadel landed, but couldn't really get enough going fast enough to counter it. Maybe he didn't realize I was within reach since he left a worker making a farm within the conquered territory, but that could be just oversight since there's a lot going on now per turn. Also the second citadel cut his road network to all by 1 of his cities, effectively halving his net incoming per turn, and thankfully he didn't have any wealthy foreign aid. Guderain came up the rear, and the good news is that new great generals (post patch) do lend a 15% bonus still even if it shows as 0%.
Apparently I generated an error when I uploaded my save file? But I couldn't find an option to re-upload and then I checked back to the client and it had already moved on to the next persons turn. Not sure if the error was false or whether this means the turn file will be borked, just a heads up.
Yeah, I was not prepared for the gg offensive neutralizing my great wall. Well played.
Good news for the 2 other people who sometimes want to take their GMR turns on their Macs, the "Fall" patch has arrived.It should include the hotfix, and I was able to load whatever the last turn I tried to play on my Mac, from 11/5/2012, turn 67 in Multiple Turns. The Babylonians and Spanish were still around, so uh, this good news isn't really tested, but I think it should work. Also it means that I will be able to take turns again during the day, yay me!
This war is far from over, by the way. I was kind of hoping Mysterio would back up his end with something, but maybe that won't be happening, and you will win.
I'm in extreme last place, and db declared war on me by killing two of my scouts (i.e., I didn't declare war on him). What was I expected to back up?
I wonder why he would expect help....
Nothing you quoted refutes what I said in my previous post.
Let me know when you finish researching sticks and stones.
Despite your adolescent reply, you've been unable to refute my comment.
You've talked a whole lot, and done nothing to back it up. You've complained since turn 30? about how "if you were closer" you'd do something about it, yet haven't done anything to get closer. And now 90 turns later you're still too far away to do anything but shout. When it was Spain, well, the Huns were closer so they should do something. When it's the Huns, well, Byzantine is closer so they should do something. Words will never hurt me.
(Removed original post, because it wasn't worth it; people will see what they want to see.)
I'll simply state, you call it complaining, I call it campaigning. There's a huge difference, but feel free to call it whatever you like.
OK, I looked through the archive files and pulled up an old turn of Bored Game. Submitted the turn. Hopefully
image will be able to play.
Edit: It jumped from 958 up to about 1215 KB pretty quickly-definite bloat.
Was your starting position really that bad Mr.
Rubin? I mean a turn 4 city is a pretty big handicap to take! :)
I like to find a good spot to settle in, tried to find one, saw I was heading toward a desert and turned around. ;)
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