Let's Play Discussion Thread - Format, Length, Replies, Et Cetera

That would be the Something Awful LP subforum, and this is not it.

Personally, I looooove reading walkthroughs, strategies/tactics, stats, and all the stuff that Lunar seems to dislike. Ever since I was young I'd devour the walkthroughs published in the back of my manga magazine, even though they were of games that I'd never played and would never get afterwards - that eventually developed into LP-reading instead. I find that aspect of LPs fascinating and fun, but I do appreciate that they might not be everybody's thing.

You and Matt Bowyer should talk - he hoards strategy guides. He'll read them cover to cover like novels.

When it comes to LPing stuff, I just try my best. I realize I fail at updating stuff because lately I haven't had enough time to focus on Vietnamese Crystal, Princess Maker 2 and PMD2, which saddens me immensely. I often think my updates are too short and unfunny. In other words, I just like criticizing myself. Constantly. They're amazing games (save for Vietnamese Crystal, which is just hilarious), and I am unworthy!

I like Angie's LPs a lot, but she isn't a role model for me. I think everyone should just develop their own unique style and work off of that, I guess? I've seen all sorts of great things on here, and I'm sure there'll be a buttload of awesome LPs in the future.

I'd rather have a forum full of people with many different styles that might not appeal to everyone than a forum full of Angie ripoffs. She's hilarious, but she's not the only funny or entertaining person in the entire world! It's like saying all books should be written by JK Rowling; it's better to develop your own style, even if it isn't funny to everyone, than get a few cheap laughs by copying someone else.

Well, Lunar, you've certainly posted a lot to go off on.

Childish mockery aside, nothing builds greater confidence in me than someone who has done fuck-all to LP themselves.

You've never chopped an onion but you want to tell me how to cook beef Wellington? Oh the ego.

It's true that LPs can get bogged down by too much detail, but what you consider unimportant is only unimportant to you.

You seem to forget -- or did you ever learn? -- that an LP highlights what the LPer found important. Not everyone will approach the game with the same mindset the LPer does. Expecting homogeneity in every LP seems ridiculous. Applying the same guidelines for an LP about a dating sim may not work for an LP about a strategy game -- and that's okay! Get inventive! Tell me how the dwarf couldn't get close enough to hack at the dragon's knees, so ended up firing arrows instead. Telling a strategy to take down a boss is not inherently wrong.

Why should the LPs be the same if the games they feature are different?

Which is exactly why an LPer should write about what they're experiencing. See the thread here?

What? Have you been reading any LPs at all? Have you even bothered to look at any post in this damn thread other than to point fingers and think yourself so clever?

Multiple LPers have posted their mindsets and methodologies for LPing. LPers make conscious, public efforts to improve their LPs. How do you know LPers haven't PMed each other about this very subject, either?

Is this how you get your rocks off? Being a complete and outrageous ageist blowhard? Perhaps you should consider your audience before you post -- after all, you're speaking to a bunch of teenager-to-20-somethings, fucknut.

You know what? No LP will ever be like Angie's. Only Angie can write Angie's LPs. This is completely new information.

I don't judge LPers because their LPs aren't like Angie's. What's more important is whether they're adapting, consciously altering their LPing style so that next time, whether for the next update or for the next LP, they'll come back better than before. It's not a matter of age, as you hand-wavingly suggest, it's a matter of experience. Sling ten crappy LPs if you will; if your eleventh has improved, it's worth it. Like everything else, LPing is a skill.

But you'd know that given all your experience, wouldn't you?

No, we're not walls. I don't know what pissed you off when you stepped into here to vent hot air around. You've set up any walls you see; you've created any echoes you hear.

I'm constantly amazed by how supportive and encouraging this community is, especially for an internet forum. I'm always heartened when I come onto here. But if you'll set yourself up as a martyr over some unfathomable reason, by all means, go ahead. This wouldn't be the internet without some diehard lugnut blowing steam like Old Faithful.

I can confirm that Ozzo, at the very least, has PM'd me for LP critiques before. :>

On that note, how useful do you think it would be to have an "LP Sandcastle" thread like SA? I'm talking about a thread where you can make test posts (of just your OP, maybe) and get some feedback on LPs before actually starting them for real. I feel like this might help to make LPs a more enjoyable experience overall for the viewers. Not sure if people would actually make use of it though, since people seem somewhat more casual about LPs here?

It might help if people feel nervous about how something might be received. I was a bit 50-50 on the narrative framing I chose for DA2, for instance.

I'd personally love to have a Sandcastle-type thread, just to have a place where it's clear that critique is wanted and welcome.

I think that's a great idea - we'll want to establish some ground rules, though. This thread has made it clear that different people are looking for very different things in a Let's Play, so anyone asking for critique will want to say what it is they're trying to accomplish. That way, someone isn't getting critiqued for including too much stat analysis and not enough story commentary when they're trying to make a visual walkthrough, and vice versa.

Since people seem to think this is a good idea, I threw together an opening post.

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Thread Title: The Broken Sandbox (Test and get feedback on your LPs here!)

Thread Body:

Want to start an LP? Consider posting your opening post and first update here for some constructive criticism! Of course, if you've already started an LP but still have questions and concerns, feel free to ask for feedback here as well (don't forget to leave a link so we can find your LP).

Ground Rules

1. Ignore this thread if it's getting in the way of your fun. Testing and getting feedback on your LP is not mandatory in any way.
2. The purpose of this thread is to make LPs a better experience for everybody. Critics, be blunt and honest with your feedback, but kindly refrain from engaging in assholery. Also, focus on critiquing the LP instead of the gameplay - start a discussion thread elsewhere if something really bothers you.
3. LPers, be clear on the purpose of your LP and if possible, what kind of critique you're looking for. Asking specific questions about aspects you're concerned about is a good way of getting feedback that's actually helpful.
4. Use the "Preview" function to make sure your updates look presentable before posting them. This is a thread where you get your LP critiqued, not proofread.
5. Read the only rule this LP subforum has before posting anything.

Helpful Resources

Let Us Play, Consolidated and Indexed
After you post your LP, leave a link to it in this thread for indexing. To make the esteemed indexer's job easier, format your links like this:

Full Thread Title Linked to Your LP Thread (Your Username)
Optional Witty Subtitle in Italics

After that, note which category your LP belongs in.

IMPORTANT: Please remove the title of your thread from the link to reduce character usage. For example, this:

http://brokenforum.com/index.php?th...-thread-format-length-replies-et-cetera.4370/

should be shortened to this:

brokenforum.com/index.php?threads/4370

Let's Play Discussion Thread - Format, Replies, Length, Et Cetera
A thread where people discuss how to make good LPs. Might be a good idea to read this thread first before starting your LP.

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Does that look all right? Is there anything I should add or modify? If nothing is wrong, I'll start the thread and request that Elyscape sticky it, if that's all right.

Somebody might also want to start a comprehensive list of tech stuff, like a list of screenshotting programs (like that extremely handy Windows snipping tool that I had no idea existed), video-capturing programs, music-linking websites (Tindeck?), image hosting websites (Imgur, Photobucket), and so on. If that happens, I'll link to it in the LP testing thread as well. If no one does it, I might just be lazy and link to threads from other forums, like this Screenshot LP Tutorial on RPGCodex, or the Tech Support Fort on SomethingAwful.

EDIT: Edited in Faust's and Ozzo's suggestions.

That post seems good to me, maybe just could post the rule 4 as 1 so people will notice immediately that those aren't mandatory rules and it's just a suggestion.

To save character usage, linking threads like this (removing the title in the url) will make Aaron's job easier.

Also, a reminder to focus on critiquing the LP, not the gameplay? We really don't need the Sandbox thread derailed.

If nobody has any more suggestions, I think I'll just go ahead and make the thread then!

Might switch around the first two ground rules just so people know what the thread is about first, but that's a minor quibble.

Done!

Davian had a really good idea in the sandbox thread, if no one's seen this yet.

Speaking as someone who can't follow half the LPs she'd like due to image loading problems, this might be a goo didea for some folks to consider. Also, using different image types. Pngs are pretty ahrd to load I think, but jpgs do fairly well. I know some people can't stand any reduction in picture quality, but that just means some people will be excluded for not being able to load.

If this hasn't already been suggested as a general thoguht to LPing, might also consider only show the text box if the screen hasn't changed in a dialogue, or sumerizing in text until a screen changes. The more you save on images, the more accessable the thread will be.

That's probably been mentioned somewhere, but I thought I'd point it out as it was of concern to me.

Ingmar first suggested the idea in this thread, but it was several pages back, and I really want the word spread. It's a generally easy thing to do, and at least it seems to help with a few browser-related problems.

Oh man, Kethryveris' Animamundi LP is the reason I went and got an account + archives access a while back. The images weren't entirely busted last time I read it, but they are now. Bit late commenting but oh well.

The viewer commentary was pretty decent - most of the negative stuff was either on the wonkier bits of the art or various shades of JESUS CHRIST BRUNO/SANDWICH WHAT ARE YOU DOING. Most of it was just reactions/minor goofy derails/praise/gleeful anticipation as is normal.

Eh, long as I'm posting I may as well contribute to the original topic.

What I've Written

Less of an RPG and more of a dating sim with stabbing in it: Let's Play Loren the Amazon Princess

How I Write

I started off really roughly and I'm still finding my feet - I only recently decided to just start cropping all my screencaps. These days, I play a bit and transcribe as I go. If something really interesting happens, I maximize the window, take a screenshot, and make a large note in the text file along the lines of SHOT or SNAP so I remember to stick it in later. I usually add in reactions as I transcribe, since having a long line of talking heads gets old.

I've got a second text file with links to the character portraits next to descriptions of the displayed emotion. If the character is onscreen when talking, it's easy to match them up, and it's often pretty easy anyways. The protagonist is kind of tricky, since she's got a very loosely defined personality and it's hard to tell how secure she's feeling in some of the situations.

I'll summarize things if it's something about basic actions or history without much emotion or interest attached to it, or if the update is getting a little too long because image limit, or if the update is a little too interesting and I want to entice the readers to buy the game. I think I cover a little too much as it is given that Loren's a commercial project, so I try to draw attention to the parts I can't replicate like vague descriptions of things that happen in other routes or some of the cooler visual effects.

What I Like

I like seeing commentary! Emotional reactions, logistic nitpicking, fun trivia... If possible, I'll try to play the relevant game myself so I can identify even more with everyone gushing over the feels. I like it when other people like the same things I like, so if someone else likes something, I'll see if I like it too. Liking things together is a wonderful group activity! Shared joy is doubled; shared pain is halved... which is why I also like watching people go down yandere romance routes and bad ends and things like that.

I also like getting to know the plot of games I wouldn't be able to play on my own because Macintosh woes.

What I Don't Like

Some of the forced running jokes can get a little old, especially if they spoil the atmosphere. If the game stands well enough on its own, then sticking your own fanfic version of events can be really, really jarring. A good few SA LPs have been guilty of this - it works pretty well sometimes with minimal content games like Gazillionaire and Princess Maker 2, but that successful formula can be a complete disaster with games like Hatoful Boyfriend, which is self-aware and goofy enough on its own. Especially when Angie set such a hard act to follow; there's not much new you can offer with a Hatoful LP other than playing it blind and... and of course, playing it blind means that you're likely to not know ahead of time that you don't need all those LOL RANDOM WACKY asides to make it shine.

I always run into the same problem while LPing: what tone to take. Being a snarky bastard works for some games, but can detract from the serious nature of the game's story. Conversely, a heavy narrative structure might organize an otherwise open-ended or repetitive game, but might also compete or even run completely counter to the actual story. Since I prefer to run my LPs completely blind, I often end up shifting my tone partway through.

I now try to write up the first parts of my LP before I even post a new thread. Not only do I get a sense for the tone appropriate to the game, but I can gauge how well a game translates to an LP format. I also warm up before LPing heavily and get a sense of how much time I will need to invest -- and whether I feel I will enjoy the hours spent.

Yeah, this is why I prefer to do LPs of games I already play and enjoy, even though blind LPs are often the most amusing. If it's a game that I already know inside and out, it's not that hard to figure out the best way to LP it and what tone to take. But the downside of that is that you don't get the spontaneity and the honest reactions you get with a blind run, of course. :(

Yeah, blind LPs can be fun when the person figures out the right tone at the beginning, but it can be frustrating when, for example, they start being really snarky about things that you know will be really serious/sad later. It's not something they could've known, but it's still weird when you do know the game.

Or when they pick up the most adorable awesome character ever and spend the first half of the game complaining about how useless he is AHEM OZZO.

Awww, Jacquelle, I'm so flattered! Although I resent being called useless.

Actually, for somewhat scary LPs, does snark help ease the fear or does it disrupt the building of atmosphere?

I think the Corpse Party LP is a good example of how both are acceptable strategies and can be used in the same LP.

I actually liked that Ozzo kept complaining about Garry's uselessness in the beginning. It just made the latter half of the LP that much sweeter!

As for your question, I think it depends on what brand of scary you're talking about, as well as what you want to accomplish with the LP. Also remember you don't always need snark for an LP to be amusing; I remember a Youtube LP of a certain scary game that was absolutely hilarious because the LPer started freaking out whenever something even remotely scary happened and then eventually broke down into complete insanity. Good times. :3

Then again, that's what some people are looking for, isn't it? A way to experience a scary game without it being too scary for them to handle.

Perhaps it's not the best counterpoint, given its video format, but Mangaminx's LP of Amnesia is largely comedic in tone, but is still scary when it needs to be because you can tell she's using humor as a crutch.

I know that's literally the only way I can handle actually playing a scary game, but I'm usually fine with an LP either way because it's sound that freaks me out. That might also explain why speed-talking sarcasm to my pc helps assuade my general tendency to jump in my seat until I fall out of my chair helps, really, come to think of it...

I haven't really been able to do anything blind yet simply because if I buy a game I generally want to know if it's worth the money because I am stingy bordering on being a Disney character. As has been said, the merit is I know what to play up and what to downplay, but I really forego spontaneous reaction because it's not really a surprise when X double-crosses me for the tenth time. I tried to balance that out for DA2 by putting the narrative in the hands of Hawke and Varric, who would be experiencing this for the first time, but the narrator format isn't the best for every game.

If it helps, I recently bought the game because of your LP. Kinda passed over it when I was browsing Winter Wolves' games, but your LP made it seem really interesting. So much so that I added to a mental list of "Games I Want to Try Playing for Myself First and Don't Want too Spoiled." That's an unfortunately long list.

I also think that since Loren's an RPG with substantial gameplay apart from the story, people still won't get the full experience just with an LP. So personally I think what you're doing here is fine! And didn't the creators even pop up to approve of it or something? xD

And since we're on the topic, like keifufairies I'm avoiding your LP right now because I'm planning to get the expansion next and I really don't want to get spoiled for that!

The woes of LPing too successful games.

The upside being sometimes you didn't know the game was as popular as that. I mean, I did know DA2 wasn't obscure, but I was surprised with how many people liked it when I heard it was generally not as well-regarded as most Bioware games pretyt much anywhere else.

Proudest moments for the LP very much include two people telling me because of that LP directly they picked the game back up. That was honestly a really awesome feeling because then at least I knew I'd succeeded in bringing across why I loved the game so much and why it deserved, in my eyes, a chance.

I have a general question I'm somewhat curious about. When reading an LP, what type of narrative do you like? Do you prefer the "role-playing" perspective, where the LPer writes the commentary as if it were a part of the game? Or do you like the "realistic" point of view, where you're looking at the game from the outside (i.e. the LPer's perspective, thoughts and reactions)? I know there are LPs that mix the two styles, but more often than not they seem to lean one way or the other, if only a little. Any preferences? Or another way to think of the question: how do you decide which style to use?

For RPGs, I like reading (and writing) LPs that narrate from the PC's perspective. I tend to get really into roleplaying a character when I play an RPG, and I actually find it easier to roleplay (when writing) or experience the game as a narrative (when reading) in an LP than when I'm playing the game, because you can gloss over buggy or inconsistent bits. If a game isn't so much about the character being "you" or your own creation, I prefer more out-of-character, informative commentary.

I've done both. I think it's very much depending on the game. As I mentioned before, narrative is a way to eliminate the "Well, GEE, golly, surprise, he betrayed me like the 15 other times I played this game!" problem when not playing blind, but I often weigh against what feels more natural when I think about the game. In an RPG it's often natural to 'play' the character you are, whereas in a game like Amsterdam Diamond, the narrative is so absurd it was just the more fun choice to play hapless sidekick to a kleptomaniac lunatic.

My LP was a hybrid style that let me react to in-game events from an outsider's perspective but still kept up some (easily broken) immersion. Our current Icewind Dale LP is done in character (switching between all of them) except for stat/level-up posts. Matt does those as himself, because it wouldn't make sense for Nagakura to tell you why he decided not to multi-class.

Although I bet it'd be really funny to hear him try! :D