Let's Play "In Your Arms Tonight"...because...you know...

I don't think he was worried, he was pretending to be because her mother was there.

Yes, I don't think he's a decent human being anymore.

EDIT: Because the right moment to care about Lysa was the damn evening where she met him while he was with another woman. Instead of lying, not giving a fuck and having a happy night with his... whatever.

That said, I agree with Randissimo and Joie de Combat.

Don't worry, hope you're all right.

I'm alright, I just... In my case, Lysa's the one hitting all of my 'wow I want to punch you in the mouth' buttons. No, what Koichi's doing isn't right, but she's doing the EXACT SAME THING. Lying about where she was, lying about missing his phone call, going on dates with another man- that's not okay. All she had to do to was pick up the phone when he called and say 'We need to talk/get a divorce.' Would it have been easy? No. But by not doing it, she's doing the same thing he is, and that just loses all of my sympathy.

Anyways I'm really leaving now byeeee.

I'm not happy about this entire thing going with Eby-chan either - she could have called a friend or stayed in another hotel - but I'm cutting her some slack because for the reason Randissimo and Joie de Combat mentioned - her not wanting to face reality because of the things going on with her family.
I don't think she is right and actually I don't like much some things Ebi-chan is doing either - like, dude, that really wasn't the moment to confess your undying love - but Koichi hits all my buttons because he. never. gives a fuck.

Basically, I'm staying mostly because it's like a soap opera, now I have to know how this ends.

Yeah. Really, everyone involved here is not handling matters as well as they could be. Lysa should assert herself better to Koichi and not put off the confrontation that she knows needs to happen, and not, as she puts it, let Ebihara pamper her just because she's feeling too chicken to face Koichi. Ebihara's coming on too strong and should be keeping things on a platonic level until she's out of the marriage; if he was concerned about sending her home to her husband in that state he should have set her up with a hotel room or asked if there was someone she could stay with before inviting her to his home and getting all snuggly.

But I can at least find their behavior understandable in these circumstances - not justified, or right, but understandable - in a way that Koichi's behavior just... isn't.

That's why I'm torn between sympathy for Lysa and despair at her decisions. She started this fairly high in my esteem but... right now, she's letting fear win and augh. It's a really shitty situation and both of them are obviously failing to communicate and it'll only end badly if they can't just cut things off cleanly.

This. All of this.

I think I'll check back when we get to the last chapter, maybe. I'm finding this whole roller coaster to be a little too painful.

I tend to get a a little too emotionally invested in these games sometimes. Especially when they hit close to home, a close friend went through a cheating husband/divorce just last year.

Wow, you guys really get into this. o3o
Hm. In a real life situation, talking about the problem and getting the divorce would obviously be the best, responsible thing to do. But in the game, that would mean less drama. Like Antiqua said, it's a lot like a soap opera, and I think it's supposed to be. So I dunno, it doesn't really bother me. Again, if it were real, I'd be like, "Okay, it's time for you guys to own up and get this over with already." But as a story, I'm just going, "Ooooh, the suspense! What's gonna happen now?! Save her, Ebi-chan!"
it probably helps that I have no shame whatsoever

Also, I personally don't think Lysa has fallen to Koichi's level. She didn't go out and start an affair in retaliation, it just kinda happened. And she feels guilty about it, whereas Koichi doesn't seem to give a fuck. Granted, we don't know his side of the story, but all evidence points to him being a huge asshole. That's clearly his role in this route.

Hey everyone, this next part will get a little rough, but please hang in there! I promise promise promise that I will grind out these updates as fast as possible to get to the happier part!

Let's support Lysa and Ebi-chan together!

Tell her Lysa!

Yoshiko looks surprised that Lysa is standing up for herself, but berates her for how she is treating Koichi. She points out that Lysa stayed out all night and didn't call, and is focusing a ton on her job.

However, she does say that Lysa can tell her anything!



Lysa thinks about everything her mom said, as well as her situation.
She realizes that it isn't too late to fix things with Koichi, and that she hates herself for spending the night with Ebi-chan.

But more than that, she is tired of being all wishy-washy.





Lysa, I do not like your decision at all, but I respect that you are finally standing firm.

Lysa's mom leaves, and it's time for dinner.





Lysa heads to the supermarket, wondering what to make.





She feels a moment of regret and almost succumbs to her thoughts about Ebi-chan, but Lysa has pretty solid resolve.

Lysa and Koichi are eating dinner, when Koichi finally just brings up the problem at hand when Lysa won't.





I need to shower so voting is open for 20 mins!

If there are no votes I'm going with "You're wrong", because it wasn't just the other woman, it was his cruddy attitude too!

Stay strong you guys ❤

I vote B. I'm afraid that C is the "N-Not that seeing you with another woman upset me!" answer.

"That's right." While Koichi's attitude was a big part of it, let's leave no room for either of them to avoid acknowledging that she knows he's having an affair.

Get it out in the open!

Yes, that's right. Because that seems like the most likely avenue to be able to actually talk about this.

I wanted to defend Lysa's behavior, not that I approve of it at all, but Randissimo put it into better words than I ever could. It really is a lot easier to say you have to do something than actually doing it. It's not something most people can relate to unless they experienced it. When you have your father making all of your decisions for you your entire life and then you tell him that you don't want to do what he's telling you to do, all hell breaks lose. Her father feels like he's entitled to make all of the decisions, and in a way, so does Lysa because that's how she was raised. The man of the house always makes all of the decisions; you never question them. That's what's been ingrained into her head and that's why she's afraid to talk back to her father and Koichi. I don't like it, but it's something Lysa has to overcome on her own. This route for me isn't so much romantic as it is Lysa fighting herself to decide whether her happiness is more important than everything she has been taught ever since she was a child.

Now with Koichi, I didn't want to hate him. I wanted to at least give him the benefit of the doubt since it was an arranged marriage, but his total disregard for Lysa is what really sets me off. I understand that he doesn't like her but at least have the decency to act like a human being! Lysa is still his wife, she still has to life with him and it isn't fair that he can completely ignore her every other day but the one day she isn't there as soon as he wakes up he wants to pretend to be worried. He has every right to spend the entire night out of the house and not call right? He has every right to get home whenever the hell he feels like it, to go out whenever the hell he feels like it, and to do whatever he wants with no repercussions, but if Lysa so much as isn't there in the morning for whatever reason, he feels that he has the right to demand to know where she is. That's just bullshit. I'm not going to say that what Lysa is doing is right in any way, but I can't blame her for looking for warmth with someone else. She may just be an accessory to him, but she's a living human being and deserves to be treated like one. She deserves to be treated like she exists.

Edit: Voting for B also because it's about damn time Koichi explains himself!

B, that's right. Both of them need to talk about this. This is getting ridiculous.

B. It's not the only thing, but honestly, I think we should time machine this to compare the answers. Because fuck, it's Koichi's attitude in general, but I feel like saying "You're wrong" won't lead to discussing that, but it's not just the woman. It's fucking not.

.... No, fuck it, go with C.

I say B. They really need to figure this out now.

Do you really have to ask, Koichi? >>;
Let's go with B.

Now, that's what I don't get. Why are you guys assuming his upbringing was any different? We know next to nothing about him. How do you know that he isn't spineless too? Yes, he's worse than Lysa because of the way he's been treating him, but when it comes to the affair, you guys have absolutely no way of knowing that all the explanations you're using for Lysa don't apply to him too. We don't even really know what his personality is like. Maybe this is the way he treats everyone. I'm not saying that any of his actions are okay or justified, I just can't for the life of me understand the sheer amount of hate that's been thrown at him when everyone's just been fangirling over Ebi-chan and a lot of people were urging Lysa to sleep with him. I don't know, I guess a good deal of that is probably because of putting yourself in Lysa's place or is just meant as jokes, but it still kind of bothers me.

I should probably cut my losses and shut up now before people get too overly annoyed with me and starting thinking I'm a misogynist or something.

I think I've finally figured out why I find Lysa sympathetic, but not Koichi. They both do the same sort of things, but she feels guilty, something I don't think I've seen Koichi express at all. In fact, he seems to feel entitled to do whatever he wants, when he wants. I just finished playing Kiyoto's route (I didn't want Ebi-chan since I'm watching this first.<3) and all of the issues here seem to play out differently there. I'd like to share some thoughts if you all don't mind.

Let's just throw all our cards on the table!

Lysa: "That's right"







AMUSEMENT?!
















Lysa finally says it!!!!!

I still withhold my judgement until I see his route because we have no way of knowing whether or not he felt guilty. It's not like we'd know Lysa felt guilty either if we weren't able to read her thoughts.

Edit: Wow, that last conversation makes him sound like a total dick, but I'd still prefer to keep my mind open for the moment, since anyone who has had the upbringing to support that type of thought process is probably in need of a hug. Rest assured, I only say that because it's a game. If this was real life, I wouldn't have married him in the first place, though if for some bizarre reason I did, I would probably at least want to try counseling before calling it quits since I'm a Christian and I don't believe a divorce should be entered into lightly.

I'm not saying that Koichi isn't being influenced by his father, in fact I'm 100% sure that he is, but the way a son is raised by a controlling male parent is completely different. While the daughters are raised to be submissive, the sons are raised to be controlling and they're told to treat women as objects. At least in this route, he's treating Lysa like a possession.

This is more of a theory on why he treats Lysa the way he does and until his route is available I won't find out if I'm right, but everything he has done so far seems to be proving me right.

Koichi: "That's infantile"

Lysa: "Infantile?!"











Well... yeah. She did.



He admits that their marriage may not be perfect.









Both of their feelings are finally out in the open!

More rapid-fire updates after dinner!

Er, well, I am sort of working with knowledge of how the entire route plays out. It's true that it never lets us into his head and there's a lot that goes unexplained about his reasons, I feel pretty safe in concluding that it's not that his case is the same as Lysa's. Just for the record.

Of course, a lot of it is that since Lysa is the viewpoint character, we're provided with her thought processes and allowed to understand and empathize with her situation while Koichi is pretty much completely opaque. That's definitely a big part of it. But there hasn't been anything in Koichi's outward behavior to suggest any sympathetic reasons so far.

I wonder why Koichi cheated? Is it because of how he was raised? It doesn't seem at all motivated by spite or money/status (since that was what he married Lysa for). I'm a bit curious since we know Lysa's motivations, but not much about why Koichi does actually cheat. Thoughts?

Yes, exactly. I get what you're saying, Nekochi, but even if they're both just victims of their parents (which I think is true to some degree), Koichi is still the one with more power in their relationship.

Clearly his dad, at least, fooled around on his mom. It almost seems like he's trying to protect himself from being hurt by not forming real emotional connections and instead going to someone who he knows not to expect anything from to fill his physical needs. It might be that he doesn't believe the type of relationship Lysa described is actually possible, so he doesn't want to set himself up for heartbreak by trying to have a relationship like that. I may be reading too much into things, but I know that when parents cheat or get a divorce, it can really mess a kid up. It doesn't make what he did okay, but I feel sorry for Koichi because he isn't able to let himself love or be loved. His life must be very lonely.

I'm sorry guys. I'm sure everyone has worthwhile/interesting stuff to say, but I just can't bring myself read any of this discussion right now. I've skipped over everyone's posts except for the updates.

I just... Uggggghhhhhhhhhh
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU--

I'll be honest, I don't hate him because he cheats. I don't hate him because he doesn't want to talk about that. I still don't hate him because he thinks that having a lover is just a thing you do because their marriage was more like a contract between families.
I hate him because he never thought that Lysa was a human being who reserved more than a "fuck off" when she asked him to have breakfast together. That's about common sense and being polite, not even about being a kind person. Was he raised in that way? That would cut him some slack, but it seems like he knows what he is doing.
Even if for practical reasons, they got married. "I married you because my parent said so and you would secure me a future" doesn't translate into "So treat me like I'm nothing".
He saw her trying, even in a stupid way like at the beginning, he just didn't bother to care.
He could have just said "Look Lysa, don't bother because I don't see our marriage in that way".

He wanted to be with a woman - not only for sex but also for the flirty part? As I understand it, since marriage it's just a contract, then he has to get this elsewhere, and since he wants more than just sex he doesn't go with prostitutes. He couldn't have that kind of relationship with Lysa because that would have messed up their situation, since he wanted just some fun without feelings involved.

Not sure about why he brings up their fathers, unless they just do it because it's a thing you do, having the fun part with a lover and the duty part with their wife.

He's going to make this difficult, isn't he?

Because it's okay if men cheat! Apparently to Koichi, it's like leaving the toilet seat up. It's just something guys do and you just have to deal with it.
But also like the toilet, Koichi is full of shit.

More update spams!!!

Lysa leaves the room to shower and cool her head.
When she returns...




Why now all of a sudden? Do you want to stop sleeping with the "amusement" and fix things with Lysa?



Lysa feels confused and hurt so she just leaves to think things through alone.



The next morning...





Koichi walks into the room, and something seems different about him.







...is he trying to fix things?



Seriously, who are you?!

Yeah, I understand how you feel.

Luckily, Ebi-chan's route is the only one (so far) that pushes so many buttons...

I hope you're okay!

...well, that is an improvement.

But Lysa, really.

I'm okay. I've just been in a situation similar to this (not married but together with someone and yeah not getting into it) and WATCHED pretty much this exact situation go down, and my patience is just... Gone. Lysa is a well-written protag, but she still lacks way too much of a spine for me to be able to cope. Also not reading any of the updates because I'm sorry but I can't.

SO clearly someone's replaced Koichi.

He's actually being considerate!



See what I mean!?

For obvious reasons, Lysa is pretty nervous about work. Luckily, she arrives before Ebi-chan.



Lysa goes to make coffee for herself and Aiba when...





It's okay Lysa! Just stay calm...



Or not...

Ebi-chan gets all worried and checks to see if Lysa is okay ❤

Once he's sure she's alright, he mentions that she has coffee stains on her shirt.



Lysa agrees, but still fails to calm down.

Especially after she gets a text from Ebi-chan asking if he can see her later that night...



Yeah that would have been my reaction too.
Except out of sheer joy.
And I would have gotten a nosebleed



Lysa goes to buy a new shirt during her lunch break, and when she returns...





Shit! Let's go, Ebi-chan!

Yeah... I'm at wits end because of the same thing. I shouldn't met my emotions get to me but this is just--
I'll keep reading because I have to see how it ends. Augh.

Lysa and Ebi-chan hurry to the presentation.



Ebi-chan does amazingly at the meeting, defending Lysa's ideas and convincing the client to trust in their skills!

Lysa mentions this to him as they are leaving.





"Work partners..."
Lysa decides once and for all to try and work things out with Koichi.







No not at all!
Lysa tells him that she just needs to work on things with Koichi. Baka (ﾉ◕︿◕)ﾉ ︵ ┻━┻

As they reach the office...



No problem random guy! Though this does make it so Lysa and Ebi-chan are alone...
Suddenly, Ebi-chan stops Lysa.



He pulls her into a warm embrace.





Wahhhhhhh *sobs* Ebi-chan! Why must you be so perfect!