Mechwarrior Online

Well, I agree they're not great, I just think they're not bad either:
- They actually have 2000 velocity, equaled only by PPCs. Not sure why you think they're slow.
- Damage concentration is a bit of a problem, true. DPS helps make up for that somewhat.
- Brawling with them is often a bad idea unless you have enough DPS to make a foe flinch, true. Certainly not as fearsome as SRMs up close!
- You're wrong about the heat -- they have 1 heat per 2 damage, a bit better than twice as good as an ERLL and still worse than a LL.
- ERLLs are actually slightly worse at damage concentration at range, as well as having less range and faster damage drop past normal range.

Overall though I would agree that Gauss Rifles are better, but not in all situations (Gauss Rifles are crap up close and have poor DPS for their weight).

Where AC2s really lose out is in comparison to PPCs, but then those are presently the best weapon.

4 tons of ammo for 4 AC2s is quite light. That's a flat maximum of 600 damage in a match -- if every round hits! Even 6 is pushing it a bit if that's your only armament.

And seriously, you're selling the UACs short Yeah they can jam and take some getting used to -- but when they work they're more than twice the firepower of a AC2!

According to the builder at that smurfy-de place, an AC/2 is 4 DPS, and a UAC/5 is 4.55 DPS.

AC2s are slow for long-range weapons, just like PPCs. Hitting with them effectively is more difficult than GRs and LLs, because of the slower velocity, and harder than PPCs, because you need to track the target for longer to get that AMAZING DPS.

Their heat-per-second, when firing on cooldown, is worse than LLs. Since their buff, ERLLs are hotter, but not significantly so. (~10% hotter.)

Brawling with AC2s is lunacy, because anyone with any sense will politely core you while you stand there like a doof spraying BBs at them.

If you want a gimmick long-range weapon, LRMs are a thing that exists, and have AMAZING DPS (while also being terrible in all the ways that AC2s are terrible).

But this is the nuttiest thing. GRs are just as good at facehug range as they are at 600m, and have only single-digit percentages less DPS than AC2s while also allowing you to twist between shots. (They have the same DPS as "fearsome" SRM6s, while having better alpha and a longer cycle time.) Where on earth did you get the idea that GRs are bad for brawling, bad up close, or have low DPS?

Gauss rifles have a travel speed of 1200. AC/2 rounds and PPCs go 2000.

In 30 tons, I have 4 AC/2s and ammo for 16 DPS. In those same thirty tons, I could fit 6 LLs at 2.2DPS for ~13.2 DPS, and that's sans heat sinks. AC/2s are weight-efficient and relatively heat-efficient for a weapon with such high sustained damage.

Brawling with AC/2s works well enough for me. It's neither an expert brawler nor an expert sniper, and it's not an alpha-striking mech by any means, but it's a quality mech at all but the most extreme ranges, it fares well in group fights and in one-on-ones, and it's deadlier than most at mid-ranges, and I'm okay with that.

AC2s have a higher velocity than GRs. Clearly you haven't tried this much.

Yeah, they have more heat per second. They also do enough more damage that they are less heat per damage, which is what matters -- lasers are hotter.

Depends what you're facing. Against slower targets like Assault mechs and many heavy mechs it works fine, but against faster mechs it's rough. That's the tradeoff you get for good range.

Hah! And you think LRMs are terrible too. They're harder to setup than weapons that arrive on target faster, but it can be done and then the damage is staggering. Crossfire foes while they're busy with other targets and LRMs are deadly.

- GRs aren't as good up close as they are at mid range, due to the firing delay which makes it difficult to hit fast targets. Doable, but that's not really where you want to be when using them.

- Gauss Rifles weigh 15 tons, and as such they don't have comparable DPS to AC2s at 6 tons, nor even close to SRM6s at 3 tons.

- What Gauss Rifles do have is pinpoint damage all in one spot. Handy! But that's not the only way to play.


And as for "Nuttiest thing", well if you want to go there, fine. Frankly if you think Gauss Rifles are as dangerous as SRMs up close I question how much you actually play this game, and will just cut directly to the chase because there are metrics for this:

I've got a ~3.2 K/D ratio dropping almost entirely solo in PUGs, and have played somewhere around 3000 matches. I'm curious what you've got backing up your certainty that AC2s and LRMs are "terrible"?

That's if you fire the UAC5 every 1.1s. You can get double that if you risk jamming, well, up until you jam that is. ;-)

Not infrequently you can get off a long burst and then it's just brutal, often catching people by surprise. I use one on an ECM cicada, and several seconds of backshot will core most mechs when it works. Other times of course it jams and I have to bail...

Aha. That I didn't know. I don't think I've used them since before they added jamming.

If it weren't for the jamming they'd be easily the best weapon. Which they were briefly when the Cataphract 4x was first released, right after they'd upped the refire speed but before they added jamming, even though that was before shot velocity was increased from 900 to 1300.

Experience and talking to other skilled players. I have no idea what my K/D is and I'm kind of afraid to look, since I've been trying to elite a RVN-4X and it's kind of making me want to die.

I bought an Illest Marmoset and set it up with 3x UAC5s and 3x Medium Lasers. It's a pretty cool robot.

That plus premium time plus hero bonus plus weekend event = all the cbills. All of them.

The marmoset is the only good hero mech worth buying imo.

Also, updated op.

There is a "flavor of the month" buzz around certain weapons, presently PPCs and SRMs. It's worth noting that "skilled players" saw PPCs as sucking before their recent modest heat reduction PPCs, and yet now the popular consensus has flipped 180 degrees. PPCs of course were already quite good, it's just the fad hadn't caught on yet, and apparently a great majority of forum-poll-voting players simply hadn't figured them out yet.

The blunt truth of the matter is that overall weapon balance is actually great (machine guns and flamers aside), and while I would agree LRMs and AC2s aren't the best weapons, nor are they weak. Their primary flaw is being tough to figure out, which a great many players who like to think of themselves as good aren't able to get past. Since they do poorly with them while using tactics appropriate to other weapons, well obviously those weapons suck! -- QED. Which isn't to say that there haven't been balance issues at times, e.g. when LRMs dropped straight down over cover, but those are largely absent at present.


And yeah, the non-ECM Ravens I would imagine are pretty painful to run in comparison! Most of the mechs seem to have at least one variant I'm loath to level up.

Much to my surprise I've found that my best performing mech is a Flame Dragon. Dragons of course according to popular MWO-forum consensus are terrible, which only makes blasting people more fun. :-)


I'm not really sure why it does better than to my other mechs, but some things I like:
- All the Lasers in the arms
- Gauss is torso mounted, and up high for easy clearance
- High speed with armor
- XL engine with hard to hit side torsos
- Solid pinpoint firepower
- People tend to overlook Dragons

Minuses:
- Center Torso is hard to hide by twisting.
- I can't stand the paint job.

And wow, I have 18 mechs. When did that happen?!

Oh, do initiate me into the incomprehensible mysteries of the great AC/2.

Well, it's not incomprehensible, but frankly speaking you do appear to have trouble with it.

Again, what is your K/D, Mr. I'm So Much Better that nobody else deserves an opinion? Because you're not really that good at this game, are you.

I have no idea what my K/D is and I'm kind of afraid to look, since I've been trying to elite a RVN-4X and it's kind of making me want to die. (Or it was, I honestly haven't been playing MWO since I posted that.) But I wasn't claiming that there was some sort of secret to using certain weapons that couldn't possibly be understood by those more feebleminded than myself. What's the incomprehensible secret to the AC/2 other than pointing the guns at the mans until they fall down?

If you learn the timing for UAC/5s, you'll do more DPS while also concentrating fire better. If you learn to use GRs, you'll actually be able to concentrate fire outside of medium rage and be able to twist defensively between shots, while getting almost-as-good DPS.

I've been trying to Elite the Dragon the past few weeks (I get in 20 minutes a day, sometimes an hour, so a bit of a process). Not getting the hate on it.
Maneuverable. Good mix of weapons. Can take a bit of punishment with the armor. Pretty good brawler.

My K/D hovering below 1, so I'm not claiming to be an authority, but I usually end up top 4 for points and damage with it.
Been playing most models around a single UAC/5 (which can do amazing burst damage if you get a nice run before jamming), with SRM 6 or SSRM2, and ML/LL. I've taken out assaults in a few seconds by drilling through armor with it on a lucky UAC/5 streak followed by an SRM 6 KO.

It's in kind of an uncomfortable place between mediums and heavies. It can't hit in a brawl like a Cataphract, it doesn't have the speed and punch and disposable arms of a Centurion, and it doesn't pose the sort of extreme threat that the Catapult can. The hardpoints are scattered and often not good. Your CT is massive and bulbous and easy to hit from any angle, which makes it difficult to twist and spread fire. Eliting Dragons is a headache because one variant is a trainwreck. More important than any of this is that, until the matchmaking change, playing one meant that the other team would have a Catapult or Cataphract.

It's hardly unworkable, though. Play like a medium, skirt the edge of the main melee and take backshots with your speed and alpha, don't stick around for counterfire. Don't worry about your damage numbers, just go for those delicious, delicious backshots.

I'm going to repost this post about your first mech from the Something Awful thread, because I think it's really really useful to anyone starting out. I can vouch for the Raven, Cent, and Atlas as being pretty badass starter robots (have not built a Catapult yet). The individual 'stage' names are links to exact loadouts.

Again, all credit to the OP at Something Awful.

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Your first big decision
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It’s time to pick your first mech. You have four choices- each is distinct, competitive, and a fun robit to pilot. Once you pick one you’ll need to use trial mechs to grind out the minimum number of cblings to afford one. After that you’ll use the new chassis to make credits and slowly upgrade your mech through a series of steps that bring it up to 100% effectiveness.

Your first 25 rounds in MWO give a cadet bonus to your income. By using this along with the overpowered exploit known as ‘playing with other goons’ you will be able to crank out some serious income quickly. All you need to do is pick one of the four recommended starting mechs and fit them as explained in this guide. Before you do that, grab a Trial 'Mech, get into a goon group, and then grind out a few games. As you play think about what you enjoy doing and what you don’t. Once you get an idea of what you like you come back here and pick the newbird mech that fits your playstyle best:

• Light- The Raven 3L (a super-fast scout and skirmisher)
• Medium- The Centurion A (a fast, hard hitting, and survivable striker)
• Heavy- The Catapult K2 (an extremely dangerous fire support and sniper mech)
• Assault- The Atlas D-DC (a mid to close range tank with a ton of armor and weapons)

The Raven 3L is the current king of lights and costs 10,792,408 CBills to buy and fit properly (if you sell all the junk that it comes with). If you want to scout for your team and fuck with weak enemy mechs, this is your robit. After 15 rounds with the cadet bonus you can afford to buy the stock 3L and half build it into something playable.

quote:

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Upgrayedd Stage 1
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Stage Cost: 248,000
CBills remaining: 232,000 (if you sell everything)
Buy your mech then remove and sell the following junk:

• 1 x NARC
• 2 x NARC Ammo
• 1 x SRM6
• 1 x SRM6 Ammo
• 1 x TAG
• 1 x C.A.S.E
• 1 x BAP

This will get you 480,000 CBills. Spend 248,000 of those building stage 1. This will be half a mech- under tonnage and hot because you are too spacepoor to afford Double Heat Sinks. Yet it is literally better to run half a 3L than to play trial mechs. Move the ECM from the Left Torso to the Center Torso. Move 1 x SHS from the head to the right leg. Then buy another Medium Laser, 2 x SSRM2s and 2 x SSRM2 Ammo (put 1 Ton in the head and the other in the Left Leg). Max the armor on everything else.
quote:

~*HOT TIPS*~
You have three lasers and two streaks with enough ammo to use them. Lean on the streaks hard for hitting enemy lights and use the lasers mostly against the backs of slow assaults. Without DHS take this time to learn to manage your heat. Play rounds until you can afford Stage 2.

• Don’t overheat.
• You’re slow as fuck with your shitty XL210 but thats even more reason to NEVER STOP MOVING.
• If you haven’t already, read the section on ECM and how it works. If you still don’t get it then stay in disrupt. When you can’t get a weapons lock to fire streaks, switch to counter. If you still can’t get a lock then you’re probably out numbered and should run the fuck away and find your ECM running goon buddies.
• Seriously. Don’t overheat.
• Don’t try to 1v1 another light unless they have no weapons. Stick with your goon buddies for now (you have goon buddies right?).

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Upgrayedd Stage 2
------
Stage Cost: 1,524,000 CBills

• Upgrade to Double Heat Sinks 1,500,000 CBills
• 3x SHS removed automatically from legs
• Purchase 2 x DHS and put one in each torso 12,000 CBills each. You’ll only use one of them in the final build but for now, the 210 requires at least 2 heat sinks and you’ll definitely use it later on.

You now have DHS and can shoot things more than you could could before. Well done, go do some more killing.


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Upgrayedd Stage 3
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Stage Cost: 202,000 CBills

• Buy Anti Missile System. Put it in the left torso
• Buy AMS Ammon and put it in the right leg

Putting AMS on can be particularly helpful when fighting other light mechs because it will take down some of their streaks.


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Upgrayedd Stage 4
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Stage Cost: 5,168,333 CBills

• Remove 1 x DHS from the Right Torso (don’t sell)
• Upgrade Structure to Endo Steel 350,000 CBills
• Tweak armor to final build values
• Purchase and fit an XL295 for 4,818,333 CBills

Finally! Time to take off the training wheels and fit a badass new engine that will let you show your featheren your true potential as a valuable light pilot.

The Centurion A is a tough striker mech that moves fast, does heavy damage up close, and can take a silly amount of punishment. It’s ideal for people who want to support their team with heavy damage while being flexible enough to act as cavalry. Do 10-15 rounds in trial mechs until you get 3,885,080 CBills to afford this mech.
quote:

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Upgrayedd Stage 1
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Stage Cost: 3,885,080 CBills
Buy Centurion CN9-A for 3,697,080 and then sell the AC/10 and LRM10 for 400,000 CBills. Don’t forget to ditch the AC/10 and LRM Ammo (there are 2 tonnes of each in each side torso). Buy 3 x SRM6s and 4 tonnes of SRM Ammo. Adjust the armor values
quote:

~*HOT TIPS*~
Don’t forget to open your missile bay doors at the start of each match. By default this is bound to forwardslash ‘/’ and there is a light indicator in your cockpit in the bottomleft that will tell if you have them open or closed.
You’ve already got a pretty good mech, just remember to twist your torso after each shot. You’re also slow as fuck, so stick with a blob and work with them to survive longer. Do your best to get close to your target and fire your SRM6s only when certain. Your heat is going to suck for a while so make those shots count. Focus on learning to manage heat, snap firing, and how to lead targets with all those sweet SRMs.

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Upgrayedd Stage 2
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Stage Cost: 1,524,000 CBills
Get the DHS upgrade and then buy 2 x DHS and put them in the Left Torso. You’re now heat stable!


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Upgrayedd Stage 3
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Stage Cost: 1,524,000 CBills
Upgrade your structure to Endo-Steel and sell that STD200 engine. Buy and fit a STD260 instead. Now you can run fast and get away for bad engagements.


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Stage 4
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Stage Cost: 202,000 CBills
Take the arm armor back down to 15 in each. Buy an AMS to put in the right torso with 1T of ammo in the head. This will help you survive better against streams and LRMs. This is pretty close to what the final mech will feel like.


------
Upgrayedd Stage 5
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Stage Cost: 250,000 CBills
Buy Ferro-Fibrous so you can max the armor on those shield arms again. Congradulations, you have a brawly and really survivable striker mech!

The Catapult K2 mounts extremely dangerous firepower in a small and surprisingly durable package. They are the kings of damage dealing in a support role and are great for anybody interested in sniping at a distance or doing lots of direct fire damage. Do ~15 rounds in trial mechs until you have 5,600,000 to afford the base mech.
quote:

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Upgrayedd Stage 1
------
Stage Cost: 5,554,023
Buy K2 for 5,304,023 CBills. Sell the 2 x PPCs and 2 x Machine Guns for 410,000 CBills then buy 1 x Gauss and 3 Ammo for 660,000 CBills.

quote:

~*HOT TIPS*~
Your heat is pretty terrible so hang at the back and get used to using your Gauss rifle. Take your time with those shots. Lead and don’t snap fire because convergence is a big issue. Use your zoom and use heat vision to spot mechs from long range.

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Upgrayedd Stage 2
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Stage Cost: 1,500,000 CBills
Purchase Double Heatsinks in the Upgrades tab. This will make you run cooler and do more damage as a result.


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Upgrayedd Stage 3
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Stage Cost: 650,000 CBills
Purchase Endo-Steel in the Upgrades tab. At this point it doesn’t give you much except extra weight for armor. Worry not for its all worth it in the end.


------
Upgrayedd Stage 4
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Stage Cost: 3,776,000 CBills
Sell the STD260 engine for 797,333 CBills and buy an XL280 for 4,573,333 CBills. You now move faster and have lots more free weight, but are less survivable. You’re almost there.


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Upgrayedd Stage 5
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Stage Cost: 660,000 CBills
Buy a second Gauss Rifle and put it in the Left Torso. Get another 3 tonnes of Gauss Ammo (6 total now) and put one in each side torso and one in a leg. Like a moth coming out of a cocoon you’re mech has now completed its metamorphosis into an extremely dangerous sniper mech that can also brawl effectively.

The Atlas D-DC is the best juggernauts and brawler of all assault mechs. By combining serious firepower along with the thickest armor in the game you present an extremely durable and dangerous threat to enemies. If you like to brawl and tank damage for the rest of your team this is your robit. Since the Atlas D-DC is the most expensive to buy outright you’ll probably need to do all 25 cadet rounds in trials before you can buy it.
quote:

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Upgrayedd Stage 1
------
Stage Cost: 10,486,012 CBills
Sell the LRM20 and Command Console to get 750,000 extra bills. Don’t forget to dump your useless LRM20 ammo. Keep the AC20 in your left torso and the medium lasers in the arms. Move the 2 x AC20 ammo to your right arm and your leg heatsinks to your torsos. Buy and fit 2 additional SRM6s for the right torso. Move the 1 SRM Ammo to a leg and buy another 3 x SRM Ammo. Buy an AMS and one ton of ammo, shove the AMS in the left arm and the ammo in the head. Don’t forget to tweak your armor values.

quote:

~*HOT TIPS*~
Again with the heat, your lasers aren’t your primary weapon and you’ll overheat if you use them too much at this stage. Fire the AC20 with the SRM6’s. Don’t be surprised if you lose your AC20 early (in fact expect it most games) so don’t be shy with it and use it plenty. When you’re aiming keep in mind that the AC20 is in your left torso and SRMs in the right. Practice torso twisting between shots, snap firing, managing heat, and learning what engagements you can walk away from and which ones you cant.

------
Upgrayedd Stage 2
------
Stage Cost: 1,572,000 CBills OR Stage Cost: 1,552,000 (if you sell all your SHS)
Upgrade to Double Heat Sinks. This will automatically remove your old SHS, but you can go and sell them if you need the cash. Purchase 6 x DHS of which you should put two in the left torso, two in the engine and one in each arm. Woo hoo now your mech doesn’t overheat every four seconds! Use your new stamina to brawl better and use your arm lasers more.


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Upgrayedd Stage 3
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Stage Cost: 660,000 CBills OR Stage Cost: 360,000 CBills (if you sell your AC20)
Sell that AC20 and put a Gauss Rifle in its place, or save 660,000 and keep the AC20 for later. Mount 3 x Gauss Ammo with the rifle. Don’t forget to take out the AC20 ammo too. The AC20 version brawls better at close range, but the Guass gives your Atlas some long range flexibility. You’re now almost over the hump to having a serious business D-DC atlas.


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Upgrayedd Stage 4
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Stage Cost: 3,146,667 CBills OR Stage Cost: 2,226,667 CBills (if you sell the STD300 engine)
Remove the DHS from each arm. Remove and either sell your Std300, or save the extra cash for this stage and keep it for other builds. Reduce the armor and both legs to 42. Buy Endo Steel upgrade and a Std 350 engine and equip it. Now put the 4 DHS you should have in your inventory into that badboy. You now run fast as hell for an atlas and can torso twist much faster. You should quickly notice the added stamina and mobility making a difference in fights. This is how your final atlas will feel, save for one final trick.


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Upgrayedd Stage 5
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Stage cost: 400,000 CBills
Buy a Guardian ECM and mount it to your center torso. Read the ECM section on how to use it. Now you’re done and you have the best Atlas ever! HOORAY! Now you won’t be so mad that EA ruined Sim City with tiny maps. . You have a heavily armored face rapey robit that also disrupts peoples targeting and protects your nearby mechs. Awesome!

Reminds me of one of the reasons I stopped playing. I bought a mech, didn't like it, found out that I got almost nothing for resale value.

Since it hasn't been posted here yet, a reason to write off this game entirely: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/102610-consumables/

They have decided to add pretty much pay-to-win consumables to the game, where the real money versions are straight up better.

You get half, which is pretty painful. :-/ It's definitely worth working out loadouts using one of the mech planners outside the game, which sadly are better than the actual UI.

Aye, I don't like the sound of that.

The only mitigating aspect is that I'm not sure even the MC Coolant Flush is a particularly good use of a module slot. The modules are fairly minor improvements true, but they're not quite that weak. I certainly wouldn't use the C-Bill versions. Generally speaking I rarely have trouble hiding behind something long enough to cool down.

Eh, wasn't enjoying the game enough anyway, so it was sort of a "Oh well, I have other games I'm enjoying more anyway" type situation.

That's a more crushing complaint than not getting full resale value!

The consumables thing pushed me over the threshold from play a couple games every patch to uninstall. Wish I could give someone my stuff! Have some MC unspent that I won't use.

I've complained about it before, but it basically boils down to having outgrown MW2 style gameplay. I much prefer WoT or WarT, and its a shame, I like Mecha, so I'll hope that Heavy Gear Assault is actually good. (Though the way they are running their PR is awful)

I don't like it. I don't like coolant as a gameplay mechanic and I don't like it costing money each time to use it, real or virtual.

35% reduction in heat once a match has potential to be a big deal. That's an extra alpha strike for some if not most mechs. If they insist on having it, I only hope that some future modules will invalidate their use, ones that I only need to buy once with c-bills to use.

I think this is going to be an unavoidable consequence of any F2P model that is supported by microtransactions. I don't like it either, but as long as players line up in droves to purchase Pay2Win upgrades, they are going to be offered Pay2Win upgrades.

I hate it, you hate it, and we're going to have a lot to hate in the future.

It's entirely possible to make a F2P model that doesn't require pay 2 win. Look at LoL.

Yeah, I'm not sure it's necessary to be commercially viable. From what I've heard from inside other similar projects far more people than is commonly expected are willing to pay surprising amounts of cash for things like custom paint jobs and fuzzy dice.

Hell, I can even see a case for it being a commercial mistake by driving away enough players to overshadow what they make off cash for virtual supplies. Hard to say though, and I suspect it'll make them money if they tread the pay-to-win line carefully enough.

Ultimately once a game starts to focus on such crass minutiae I lose interest though, even if they do balance it well enough to not directly turn me off. I'd rather their design and development time were on actually interesting things.

At GDC one year I saw a talk by one of the guys behind Battlefield Heroes. They initially weren't making much money from cosmetics, but were terrified of letting players pay for power because of all the vocal hysteria surrounding it. Once they actually took that step, though, they became very profitable and it didn't have the disastrous impact on their player numbers that they worried about.

So it's an interesting counterpoint. Maybe the PAY2WIN!! furore is largely a storm in a teacup.

It's really too bad that LoL has a feature as odious as the worst of pay2win: its playerbase.

There's something else I just thought of which is related- providing players with excuses for their poor performance is good for retention. This usually comes in the context of random factors applied to damage or aiming, but I think it can also apply to purchased upgrades. Very few players are really interested in a genuinely competitive game, where the most skilled players are absolutely dominant. Most people do not want to admit that they are less skilled than their opponent.

If they can blame the enemy getting a lucky crit, or bad luck with their COF, or the enemy having an upgraded weapon (rich bastard!) then they will feel better about losing. And when those same factors go in their favour, they feel like they had a well-deserved victory. It actually helps the health of the game.

As long as the power differential is relatively minor, of course. You don't want the paid upgrades to hand over a win every time.

Presentation is here. It's forty minutes long, but if you've got an interest in the subject it's well worth your time.

Yeah, the general upshot is that what random gamers loudly complain about on forums is surprisingly distinct from how gamers in aggregate spend their money. I know my gut feelings and personal preferences on the matter have all turned out to be completely outside the average, and that my general intuition about what should work has been just flat wrong.

Oh, the coolant thing isn't the only consumable you can buy. There are also apparently single-use ARTILLERY BOMBARDMENT and AIR STRIKES that work the same way as the coolant thing.

Call of Mechty, apparently.

Wow. Well, thank you for killing my interest in this game totally.