OH GOD THEY BROKE OUT OF THE WARSAW GHETTO ALERT THE PANZERS

I'm curious as to how specific this would be.

Would it just be Dating Sims: The Forum, or could you discuss things like fiddly, micromanagement-centric JRPGs and Mobile Suit Gundam there?

Eh, seems like a rather arbitrary split to tell you the truth. LPers don't just talk about dating sims, but all sorts of things. Like Bioware games, or ancient text adventures. A non-mainstream Japan-stuff subforum seems like unnecessary pigeonholing to me.

What defines mainstream video gaming? What about western dating sims that have nothing to do with Japanese culture, but are still not "mainstream"?

I'd prefer not to have a separate subforum, since dating sims and their ilk usually make themselves clear from the title so people who aren't interested can avoid them, but I'm open to it if it happens. I'd just worry it would turn into "LP people talk about games here, non-LP people talk about games there" instead of actual integration.

Stealth pun?

Perhaps FURTHER TAGGAGE would be a functional solution?

Can forum-specific tags be done? Or is it all or nothing? Never used XenForo.

And when I say "fiddly JRPGs" I mean things like Resonance of Fate.

You know it. ;)

I don't know what incident you are referring too.

I know it has been discussed a lot with emotions running high, but I still don't get why a sub forum for all Japanese text adventures, interactive stories and related discussions (also LPs) is a no go and discussion about it such a big deal. It would increase the readability immensely and the traffic/participation certainly justifies it.
Quite frankly I find the argument of feeling persecuted insulting. Different topics get individual sub forums... why is this one area of interest victimized by getting it's own sub-forum?

NO.

Just wait until I do my Warhammer tabletop LP, if that can't unite the warring clans nothing will.

Anyone who uses anybirdie or anypony un-ironically is banned forever

I want to see a dating sim involving - accurately rendered! - Lovecraftian horrors, wherein the phrase of choice is "anybomination."

What western dating sims

BioWare games

This is true. I hadn't thought of it because at the moment there's not many people posting on the outside, but there are a lot of us and we're a pretty tight-knit group. I also don't want to see the gaming forum flooded with the exact same kind of games because we all decided to liberate ourselves at the same time, because that's just boring. Variety is the spice of life and all that. And indeed it might drive away people who decide that BF has stopped appealing to their interests.

If the above happened I would support a separate subforum, but with clear guidelines as to what belongs in it so that LP people would still feel free to post in the main forum if they had something to discuss that wasn't necessarily a Japanese dating sim.

Maybe some kind of LP'er to Grognard translation dictionary needs to be compiled and stickied in a thread somewhere. Or maybe someone can create one of those fancy 'apps' that translates posts between the two sub languages.

If it's not an LP, it doesn't belong in the LP forum, regardless of national origin. I vote a Japan section is go.

Sidebar: I do favor mocking one's own life in mock LPs like "Let's learn to sew!" and whatnot.

Key word is "if". The LPers haven't taken over the forum, and I highly doubt they ever will. I just really don't see the need for more compartmentalizing. Plus, would any non-LPers be posting in this new subforum? Would it just become an extension of LP but for slightly wider topics?

Exactly. Which is why I'd prefer if we just wait and see, because if it does happen all the threads can just be moved over to the new subforum, and if it doesn't... then, well, it doesn't, and we can all live in peace and harmony with each other (in theory). But in the end it's Lum's decision and I'll respect it either way, because it still wouldn't discourage branching into the non-gaming sections of the forum.

Not that I read the LP forum, but in my experience the more isolated you can make the Japanophiles, the healthier the board culture is for all concerned.

Hey no offense but can you LPers like finish your goddamned LPs before starting new ones some of us are closet LP readers

Poor Mary Sue & Kinata...

I say no, but I'm all for emergent behaviour. I guess you could split between "let's play" with its invitation to participate in the communal crafting of the the story - a shared experience - and an "AAR" forum which would be not so interactive

Is the question here whether Japanophile threads will "take over" other parts of the forum (what with them getting the most frequent posts) once integration occurs?

At this point, the LP community is pretty insular. Perhaps once we reach a critical mass of threads? But then we're back to the argument of separating the LP subforum, too.

Yeah yeah yeah, I'm getting to it (if you meant "Hinata" then I have fixed your typo, if you did not then my apologies).

We've already had the "splitting the LP forum" conversation. This is, I believe, more directed towards whether Lum should create a sort of general chat for people who like Japanese stuff and there is a lot of off-topicness going on in the LP forum. There's two solutions to that; 1) people branch out and create threads relevant to their interests in the appropriate subforums 2) Lum creates a subforum for all things Japanese (which is presumably what the the LPers are mostly going to talk about).

Create new subforum named English Teacher Holding Camp.

I only bring it up because a lot of the off-topic discussion could go into the PC/Console Games subforum (as at least one game already has). What I got from Lum's post was that (given how frequently some of the Japanophile threads update) the LPers might swamp the other subforums and alienate the rest of Broken Forum (a similar argument as for separating the LP subforum).

I don't think creating a new Japanophile subforum would help integration the two communities. I don't think we've had enough threads to justify a fear of "taking over" the entire forum. But if the threads become numerous enough that the rest of Broken Forum feels annoyed or alienated, then perhaps we should bring this back up.

I press the What's New? button and read threads which interest me. I have no idea about anything as a result.

Yes I am special and I would like a gold star thank you.

I find this whole LPers VS non-LPers issue uncomfortable, to say the least. I would prefer not to think of it that way, but (to me at least) the tension here is palpable. Maybe I'm just being sensitive, but I feel like there are a a fair few stereotypes/ thinly-veiled insults being thrown around here and there, and it doesn't help. If creating another subforum will keep the peace, then I'm all for it. I don't know.

I first go to the LP subforum and mark all posts read, then I press 'What's new' otherwise I can't see a damn thing for all those fancy colourful tags...

Yo we discussed this (tags) already.

I think this kind of post strikes at the heart of the difference in temperament that makes it tricky for the two sub communities to fully integrate. It goes deeper than just what weird bunch of creepy things they jerk off to, what toys they keep in the cupboard or what dialect of internet they speak in.

On the one hand you have the Qt3 exile group which has a much more thick skinned, tested-by-battle approach to forum posting. Their emotions have long since calcified into a single one; something like a cool rage. They throw down brutal honesty, lengthy flames and drive by snark in abundance. If you like the cut of a gentleman's jib in this grouping, then you subtly let him know by insulting the way he looks and everything he holds dear until he gets the message. To win respect in this gathering of seasoned campaigners is to take your cock punches with a smile, and then, punch back with greater lexical profundity and dexterity until your opponents lay scattered around you like so much chaff. Showing too much emotion, at least without carefully controlling its expression is frowned upon. This group will hold onto a grudge for years and keep a mental file on your transgressions so that they can be produced should you ever require a tailor-made smack down. To generalise; they have been around the internet too long, are more male, have beards and some of them probably can't remember being a teenager at all because it was too long ago and they have kids and a mortgage now.

By contrast the typical LP forum poster wears their heart on their sleeve, is more likely to call for a group hug than an insult dick fight and is generally likely to take offence far more easily, and yet forgive it just as quickly if apologies fly and a group hug with plenty of 'feeeeeels' comes up on the agenda. They love romance and drama and a good theatrical story, they ride an emotional rollercoaster from passionate love one minute to deep sadness in the next. If an emotion is coming they just let it out uncontrolled with little regard for grammar or appropriateness. To generalise; they are younger, more female and don't know what a usenet is

That's why you get a steady escalation of tension in lots of these collision threads, you have a natural unavoidable process of group dynamics:

• LP poster posts something harmless and goofy with lots of emotions flapping everywhere.
• Grimdark grognard poster (from the far future where there is only war) sees only an exposed flank ripe for an insult strafing run as is the group norm.
• LP poster or others from that group discover what seems like an unprovoked attack and strike back in an emotional way that only leaves open more exposed emotional flanks ripe for the plundering.
• This is like emptying a truck full of blood soaked meaty chunks into a shark tank.
• LP'ers end up a mixture of sad and angry (which they probably call sangry) while the grognards, probably somewhere deep down, resent feeling like they are bullies for just acting the way they always act and mentally record this slight in the great book of grudges for next time.

Of course not everyone fits neatly into each box but that's what I see happening in broad strokes.

Have a like instead. You can imagine it is gold-plated if you want to.

I guess it's an unwritten rule:

Outside of the LP forum, you never go full Hato.

...and yet somehow quite a few from both groups interact in several threads without a problem. I see your point, sure. But yet it seems the two are starting to grow together.

Regarding Lum's suggestion - while I do see the validity of the idea, I think it would be better handled in a slightly different manner. As I see it, the perception is that the LP forum is in essence it's own community, with only a little overlap between the two. So it is already separate. However, for the crowd of grognards it seems necessary to have a more comfortable way of keeping the very high volume of what to them is noise (not meant insultingly, LPers) out of their forum experience. Perhaps instead of trying to open up a "LPers who happen to like japanses stuff" subforum, wouldn't it suffice to create more subfora of the LP forum ? Maybe based on the tags that exist at the moment ? The tags themselves seem to be taken as less than helpful (as an example I would like to point out Hanzii at #32, and I understand him). Two problems solved in one go ! The tags are now superfluous and can be removed, and most LP threads will probably go into the new LP forum for dating sims. Yes, a few LP threads with a japanese inclination will share an LP forum like the strategy one with the more grognard-compatible games, but who cares ? Also, the shared fora might be a wonderful place to come into contact with each other ! The grognard can read about the weird wargame with romance material (and perhaps like it), and the friend of most things japanese might start reading about this weird clickfest with lots of numbers and not a single picture of a person that happens to be in the same forum as his favourite Space Opera-cum-shooting romance thread. (example completely made up). Only problem that remains is that "What's New" will still be flooded with lots of noise for everyone. But if the forum software does not allow users to explicitly keep subfora out of there they do not like, my suggestion to anyone annoyed by it would be "suck it up". I would.


Edit: Oh crap. Space opera-cum-shooting is NOT meant to be a pun. Think latin. I forgot for a moment where I post.

The problem is not LPs, the problem is when LPers want to discuss other stuff, specifically video games in a non-LP context. Creating sub-sub forums of the LP forum wouldn't help, because things like general dating-sim discussion are not LPs.

..then I absolutely fail to see the problem. Will this generate insane amounts of volume ? I think the rest of the forum can handle a few threads on japanese culture. And if suddenly hundreds of threads on favourite anime shows appear in "Entertainment", or threads on important dating sims creators in "Gaming Discussion" we can probably subdivide these fora, but again not along the "asian / non-asian line". For example, "Animated Movies and TV Series" would go well in "Entertainment" if needed, and is a lot more inclusive. As for participation of LPers in other thread - I for one welcome our new LPer overlords. Joking aside, if the last one is a problem we should just stop posting altogether, period.

I do think that segregating the hole bunch of LPers into their own forum, complete with its own "Gaming Discussion", "Eertainment" and "Sanctum Santorum" is a bad idea. Then we might as well open up a sister site and transfer everyone there, which I consider idiotic.

By the way, is "LPer" the BF official term? I am not so familiar with the debate around this topic. And if so, am I both grognard and LPer ? I migrated here from QT3 as well, but have made threads and posted in the LP forum. To be more precise I pretty much stopped lurking and started participating instead in and because of the LP forum.

LPer is a word I just made up because I'm not using a real keyboard and I was sick of typing Person from the LP Subforum.