I'm not sure it's made much news in the States, but headlining in the UK are allegations against Jimmy Savile, a DJ and BBC presenter who was a pillar of the Establishment and much beloved for his charity work until recently, when it became apparent he was the King of Paedophiles. When the rumours first appeared a month or so ago, google had some interesting hits, now buried by current events. The first I read, interestingly enough, on a Leeds United supporter forum in 2002 (!) was that Jimmy was a necrophiliac, and had free access to the morgues at the hospitals he volunteered at to indulge in this. This broke yesterday in the news. The next rumour was outrageous, he was a pimp for senior politicians, celebrities, members of the House of Lords and Royal family. The politicians included Ted Heath, former PM, and Cyril Smith. MP Paul Watson hinted at these rumours today in Prime Ministers Questions. There may be D-notices (press blackouts) relating to this and other cases. Also making the news are stories coming out of Duncroft School, visited regulary by Savile, was also frequented by other celebrities and minor members of the Royal family. The rumours which haven't broken in the mainstream news are worst of all. The lack of witnesses or victims may be explained by the murder investigations at Haut Le Garenne, a Jersey orphanage visited by Savile and others, and a strange cover up by the Jersey Establishment who shut down the investigations by Jersey police. Also, hints of kids disappearing on yacht trips. One of said yachts was said to have been moored on the Thames near Parliament and used by Savile and politicians during the 70s. A few months ago I would have read these rumours and assumed it was the domain of conspiracy theorists, but now the sources haved moved from infowars and godlikeproductions to Hansards I am really beginning what the hell has been going on, and just what has been covered up. tl,dr; Britain's favourite celebrity was a paedo pimp who arranged murder-orgies for the ruling elite.
If all of this is true: Is there any chance that this is so ill-advised as to back-fire? D-notices aren't exactly the domain of conspiracy theorists and hack film-makers anymore; using them to blackout the English tabloids' three favorite topics - pedophiles, royal/parliamentary scandal and royal/parliamentary sex scandal - just seems to be begging for a backlash. On the other hand, with how close the UK government and most British journalism is- I doubt the D-notice will ever fall, but it would be nice to see some spine in the face of cover-up.
God knows what was going on in the 70's but the most obvious modern political influence this story is having is giving the right wing media and government a chance to open a new front in their war on the BBC.
Here's video from Top of the Pops (Britain's biggest chart music program) of Savile doing the close-out with 14 year old Coleen Nolan.
eerily familiar. Also let's hope the outcome isn't the same, where fuck-all happened to the dudes in charge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casa_Pia_child_sexual_abuse_scandal
Which may backfire when it's pointed out that previous generations of leaders and figureheads were BFF with Savile. Savile was known to have spent Christmas and New Year's Eve with the Thatchers.
Some poor bastard paid hundreds for a suit like that at a charity auction of his possessions. There's a guy who paid 160,000 for his Rolls Royce and personalised plate and is now stuck with the worlds most expensive noncemobile.
Are you sure this isn't just the plot for the next Red Riding Trilogy? I actually did read about the Jimmy Savile investigation yesterday, but I didn't gather how widespread and serious the implications are. Where are the murder-boat rumors coming from btw?
As bad as it appears things were with this guy, I do think its a bit early to jump on all the wild stuff speculation that comes out of cases like this. A similar claim on "high level pimping of children" popped up with the Sandusky/Penn State case last year and nothing came of that. That said, what this guy seems to have gotten away with for so long is unbelievable. Its not like the victims weren't telling anyone, it was that adults were telling them to not talk about it. Adults running orphanages and hospitals and such. If any of those people are still alive they need to face the legal system.
The 70's was a weird time to be even mildly famous. It was pointed out in one Guardian article I read that even supposed radio saint John Peel admitted to having sex with children (14 IIRC) in his auto-biography.
Various blogs and forums. All were completely baseless of course, well today anyway, who knows tomorrow. Max Farqhar had a bunch of dirt on the yacht. Especially in the comments. Coprophilia too. Bloody hell. This Leeds Service Crew post from 2006 is an early rumour, or in their words "the talk of Leeds since the Seventies" and has the necrophile stuff. David Icke, footballer, BBC presenter, son of God and now the UK's number one lunatic conspiracy theorist has been going on about a Savile paedo abuse ring for years, except he worked for the alien lizard overlords and there were more satanic rituals and freemasonry involved, so no one took any notice. Edit: The BBC paedo ring scandal grows, and maxfarqhar is now involved in threats of litigation from a sitting Cabinet Minister after a post from a former child actor.
You can tell she likes it because she is still smiling as she's lifted off the ground. She shouldn't have been wearing that outfit anyway. Asking for it.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=163665074 http://www.npr.org/search/index.php?searchinput=bbc Heard about this on Wednesday listening to NPR in the afternoon. If I recall, he might have been a necrophiliac as well, taking special pleasure in rolling the newly deceased to the morgue...
So this story continues endlessly boring most regular people in the UK to tears but convulsing the media because a large section of them have ulterior motives. The rough outline so far: BBC's flagship evening news programme 'Newsnight' runs an investigation into rumours of 70's & 80's BBC TV star Jimmy Saville's child abusing past just after he dies. The investigation uncovers victims who testify to the abuse and the programme is set to be broadcast with the victim interviews in December 2011. The top manager of the Newsnight team suddenly gets cold feet over the story for reasons as yet unsatisfactorily explained and spikes the report over the strong objections of his reporters. There are some suspicions that it might have been to do with wider BBC scheduling concerns as they had already queued up a lot of Saville tribute shows to played over the Christmas period. The report becomes more widely known about in UK media circles which eventually prompts another channel (ITV) to start their own investigation re-interviewing the BBCs witnesses. The BBC investigation being spiked and the subsequent ITV report with the same allegations start to appear in the newspapers before the ITV report airs. The media reports of Saville child abuse prompt a large number of former Saville victims and unwitting enablers to come forward to the media providing a daily drumbeat of stories on new angles to his abuse which appears to have been widespread and ongoing for years in locations such as hospitals and BBC green rooms. The BBC itself comes under a storm of criticism from a hostile media for both spiking the story and for 'harbouring' Saville in the first place. Most of the news papers and many of the TV channels in the UK are intensely hostile to the very existence of the BBC as a publicly funded media organisation which they see as unfair competition. In particular the Murdoch papers and the Daily Mail will take any opportunity to cast the BBC as the devil because their ultimate goal is to see it dismantled, something hard to achieve while it is so popular (the BBC has consistently high approval ratings due to its high quality output despite the efforts of the right wing press). This story proves to be a gold mine for those papers as it combines peado bashing and BBC bashing, two of their perpetual obsessions, they are only sad that they haven't managed to cram the royals in as well. The BBC of course has flaws of its own, one of which is to be intensely over sensitive. The last time there was a big scandal involving investigative journalism on the Iraq War (which they were later proved right over) they reacted by essentially neutering all of their investigations for about five years requiring every detail of every report to be signed off by a phalanx of cautious managers. This stopped the BBC breaking any news for the whole period. This time their reaction was similarly over dramatic. After being accused of not believing the victims of child abuse they decide to sideline the previous editorial chain for Newsnight and replace them with a fresh inexperienced bunch who were apparently instructed to believe all victims all of the time. Newsnight publishes a new child abuse investigation into the rumours mentioned in the first post of this thread. In the report one of the victims alleges that he was personally abused by a senior but unnamed tory figure (which the reporters knew to be Lord McAlpine). The Newsnight report lends credence and exposure to the rumours circulating online and the identity of the alleged abuser becomes an open secret in the UK. The prime minister announces a new inquiry into the paedophile ring in North Wales seemingly in reaction to the Newsnight report and is later ambushed by an ITV chat show host with the list of names alleged to be involved. The story grows further. Investigative journalism by The Guardian reveals that the Newsnight team failed to ask basic plausibility questions of the McAlpine allegations including failing to even show the victim a photograph of McAlpine. As a result it appears extremely unlikely that McAlpine could ever have been involved in the child abuse ring but he has now become a central figure in the story so... McApline goes public making the open secret fully open. He announces that he has never even been anywhere near the locations alleged in the Newsnight story and gives notice of his intention to sue. The victim who made the original allegations publicaly retracts them leaving the Newsnight team looking very stupid. The BBC now takes a new round of criticism for believing victims of child abuse too much (they literally can't win this game). The storm grows and eventually leads to the resignation of the recently appointed Director General (the top man). The tories and right-wing press sensing blood move in for the kill but manage to overstep with the Daily Mail and a former MP branding the child abuse victim who made the allegations against McAlpine 'a weirdo' despite the fact that there appears to be no doubt that he was systematically abused for years as a child. Another tory lord strays into David Icke territory by professing to believe that the entire story was a BBC plot to discredit Thatcher (McAlpine was one of her closest allies during her time as PM). And that's where we are today with the BBC still scrupulously beating itself up every day because it is its own worst critic and the right wing press desperately scrambling for new angles to keep the story and the BBC bashing going for as long as possible. Meanwhile, the general public can't believe that this is still consistently the top news story two months after the Saville story first broke.
The seventies were a weird time. I recently saw a clip from those days, which showed a member of the House of Representatives being interviewed about how he felt about pictures of naked kids in magazines. He was okay with it.
Excellent summary. The BBC bashing is fascinating to watch - for a good example just read the QT3 thread on this (I did by accident... Houngan, Vetarnias and Cliffski in full on rage is a good reminder why I shouldn't click threads there. Somebody get Tim Partlett over here, though).
This needs context. I wouldn't have a problem with pictures of naked kids either - if they're not sexualized in any form. But kids playing naked as an illustration wouldn't bother me at all.
Here's a rough transcript of the conversation between the Representative and the Interviewer. I: What's your opinion of the specific form of pornography that uses children? R: I don't think it's much of a problem. Being naked is a natural thing and naked children can be very beautiful. Sexual acts are natural acts and I don't think it's shocking that children imitate these acts. I: So if there was a vote on child pornography being freely available in the House you would vote in favour? R: Without a doubt.
Ah. Pornography. That's another matter entirely... I can't even fathom that being alright in the 70's.
I wouldn't know. But I wouldn't be surprised either. But do bear in mind that as the first country to legalize porn, Denmark did have quite a bad rep in the rest of the not so enlightened world. So people (and newspapers like The Daily Fail) might have exaggerated exactly what was being made, just like the UK press did with the dangers of the Video Nasties. Child pornography has never been legal in Denmark, but kids under 18 but over 15 (age of consent) could have legally been in erotic photography back then (they still can in theory, but I don't think any legal businesses would dare). So, I'm not saying it's not true. Just grain of salt and all that.
It all sounds pretty sordid but I really hope the BBC isn’t a casualty. As online news sources increasingly hide behind pay walls, they’re one of the best remaining options even for us non-Brits. I understand the argument against a public corporation competing with private entities (it’s often made here in Canada regarding our CBC), but I believe public broadcasters provide an essential service both in terms of culture and keeping people informed. Maybe reforms are needed, but the essential purpose is worth our tax dollars.
So does this mean that the early rumors of a vast conspiracy of 120 Days of Sodom-themed murder/rape cruises organized by Saville for higher ups at the BBC and members of the aristocracy are probably untrue?
The BBC's gone all "Live Text BREAKING NEWS!" on itself now. It's like that Russian doctor performing his own appendectomy.
Nope, no real evidence, only a few hints at Jimmy being a serial killer. He was suspected of being the Yorkshire Ripper, even so far as to have his teeth prints taken by police investigating it at the time. He then went on to become the actual Yorkshire Rippers BFF whilst preying on girls at Broadmoor Prison. That's when he was staying with the Thatchers or organising social events for Clarence House. The aristocracy thing seems to be linked to NotMcAlpine as the weekends in London described by the boys from the Welsh home point to organised visits to private members clubs/hotels in London. No mention of the Labour25 or any d-notice shenanigans by Blair yet, or our previous PM, Mr Eddy.
I remember finding a bunch of old Private magazine issues a few years back (Swedish porno mag with international audience, now giant porn corporation) from the early 70's. They girls in there were frequently featured as being 16 or 17 iirc. I think there might even have been a 15-year old but I can't recall. While I cant say if the ages printed were accurate or not there was evidently no problem claiming they were. Not child pornography per se, as the girls were all over the age of consent in Sweden, but it would probably fall under child pornography laws today. Which is why I didn't keep the issues, there's more than enough porn in the world to get in trouble over a 40 year old magazine. Basically most of the old religion-based morality- and censorship laws for porn were made away with in the late 60's sexual liberation and there was suddenly almost no regulation at all. That's the best way I can explain it. Restrictions came back by the early 80's but it was still quite a gap where you could do pretty much what you wanted.
Holy Crap, what a perfect storm. It is like the Penn State Scandal (organization actively shields known offender) with the Child Abuse Sex/Satanic Panic False accusation craze of the 80's. I read some of the links provided by PlayingWithKnives above and they move pretty quickly into JewishBanker Illumninati argle bargle. Which isn't to say Savile wasn't super fucking creepy and would surprise nobody that his depravity knob went to 11, just to say I've yet to see credible accusations of same. Here is a picture of Jimmy introducing Boxer Frank Bruno to the Yorkshire Ripper (Bruno had no idea who he was meeting). Can someone explain how the fuck this happens? How does anyone hang out with a serial killer not instantly have his reputation destroyed? Fred Rodgers wouldn't have survived being a pen-pal with Ted Bundy...Captain Kangaroo would have been demoted to Buck Private Out of A Job if he introduced celebrities to his pal Ed Kemper - What The Hell England?
Since this story broke I've been kind of marveling at the fact that he looks exactly like a cartoon pedophile. Hanging out with seril killers is just the icing on a very weird cake.
http://youtu.be/wEolSjlcqng Sorry... I just can't help but hear that and mentally fill in the rest, and in the context of this discussion it just seemed to perfect. (In fact, this whole horrible scandal turned into the Brass Eye Special weeks ago: ) Edit - That's probably NSFW by the way, unless you have a very strange boss.
