Discussion in 'January And Everything After' started by Mark M, Dec 20, 2012.
Anders, that was *really* fascinating. Liking isn't enough, so thanks, man.
That is pretty precise! And awesome.
This is where I bust out my copy of The Meaning of Liff, isn't it?
I learned this word in middle school, and I always wanted to work it into a speech.
"On this most jumentous of occasions,"
Benaltrismo: literally "the tendency of (arguing) something else indeed (is the problem/solution)", it's when instead of addressing the merits of what's being said people complain that the problems being discussed and/or the proposed solutions aren't relevant, or not worth talking about, because there is something else much more important, only tangentially related or completely off-topic, that should be addressed first.
How would you use that word in context? "Stop spouting benaltrismo"?
Not exactly, benaltrismo is the tendency (or the act) of arguing in that specific way. So, you'd use it more like "due to his benaltrismo I don't bother arguing with him anymore", or "debates on that channel consist entirely of lies and benaltrismo", or "stop with the benaltrismo already, let's have a serious discussion".
To refer directly to a statement there is "benaltrista" (same concept in adjective form), so you could say "your argument is benaltrista", or "stop spouting benaltrista bullshit".
Oh, and "celodurismo", literally "I-have-it-hard-ism" which is, uh, a way of being, like someone that would claim (figuratively) that his dick is hard, to say s/he's decisive and has guts. Note, it doesn't mean being decisive/having guts; it means being such a stupid uneducated braggart that you'd express the concept in that way.
(it's a relatively new word, like 10-20 years old, and it was created after a politician publicly shouted exactly those words, except the -ism. The connotation therefore is that not only you are an unrefined idiot, but due to your position you really should know better)
MY DICK IS SO HARD YOU GUYS
Last one (I'm not spamming, I post them as they come to mind): "dietrologia", "behind-ology", going out of your way to claim that there are obscure, complicated and suspicious reasons behind something that happened, when likely that's not the case. Kinda like conspiracy theorizing, except it doesn't always involve a conspiracy; or paranoid reasoning, but it's not insane and the reasons aren't necessarily malevolent.
Would an example of benaltrista be "hey guys stop talking about gun control and mental health care, obviously the solution to mass shootings is more vegetables in schools"? I don't have a firm grasp on what you mean.
The example that comes to my mind is the "vaccines cause autism" type arguments.
That would be one example, from what I gather. "Vaccines cause autism" would seem more the province of a dietrologist.
Really, it's hard not to think of a million examples of these and wonder why English is jerking around instead of producing useful terms like this.
Technically it could qualify, but it's not what I'd normally think of as benaltrismo, 'cause it's obvious that people won't care about vegetables in school lunches, and it isn't a really urgent problem. A few half-assed examples of benaltrismo:
Why are we talking about violence in schools when TERRORISTS out there are dedicated to destroying our whole country?
Who cares about the low quality of our prenatal care, we are killing our children with government-subsidized abortions as we speak!
This conflict between unions and corporations isn't worth discussing, illegal immigrants are stealing all our jobs anyway.
This local marijuana decriminalization bill doesn't matter, hard drugs/international drug cartels/the FBI and the war on drugs are the real problems.
The appeal to something else should superficially seem on topic, or have enough emotional weight to derail the discussion anyway (the classic OMG starving kids in Africa!). A benaltrista point can be true, and even legitimate in a broader discussion (the drug one for example), but in context it will be beside the point, and used to move the discussion to unproductive asides.
Again, not exactly. The obvious thing about "vaccines cause autism" is that it's wrong. A dietrologist's starting point could well be true, or at least plausible, but he'll say that there are complicated reasons behind it. It's more like, Obama didn't propose a ban on guns (true) so he could accrue enough political capital to enact a stricter ban on guns on his second term. Or, the real reason Jenny McCarty is anti-vaccinationist is that she thinks the movement will, I don't know, improve the chances of the GOP winning the next elections, which in turn will cement it in its ways and destroy it on the long run.
Gruntled: the opposite of disgruntled. Good to use after a large holiday meal.
At one of my jobs long ago, when Friday rolled around, since we had become disgruntled during the work week our plans for the weekend always included "regruntling".
In other words, every argument posted on the internet, ever.
As for the gruntled vs. disgruntled... The 'dis' in this case does not derive from a root prefix meaning anti or opposite, but from a root prefix meaning "extra," if my memory isn't failing (I could look it up, but extra effort whatever..). So disgruntled doesn't mean non-gruntled, but even-more-gruntled than before.
EDIT: aaand Sinfony beat me to this particular bit of pedantry with one word and a link, which I obviously didn't follow.
I am leaving my original diatribe on record as evidence that clicking a link is just too darn hard for me...
WHY DO YOU HATE CHRISTMAS??
Benaltrismo describes a fair number of posts in the Technologics forum. "Can someone tell me how to use X to do Y?" Answer: "That's so stupid. No one uses X any more. Use Z."
...All this thread has taught me is that I really need to learn mroe German.
Using phobias and medical disorders is cheating too, there's tons of weirdly specific mental oddities.
I couldn't tell you if I'm spelling it right, but, tryptotillamania I believe is the compulsion to pull out hair. Your own, your friend's your cat's, eyebrows, arm hair, you name it.
Gruntle (backfomed from disgruntle with the obvious opposite meaning) has a long history, almost an hundred years. It's defined as such in multiple dictionaries and is obviously in common use.
So, uh, true because meaning comes from usage. Proof for that? Well, we're discussing a word created from a word created by a crafty dude who thought it'd be funny to equate someone's lack of contentment with the cessation of a pig's grunting.
For as precise as Germans can be, two of my favorite German words show a remarkable lack of creativity. Feuerzeug and Flugzeug, which mean lighter and aircraft, but literally translate to fire-thing and flight-thing.
I adore the way that the German language is one where you can just bolt any two words together Frankenstein-style and achtung! you have a new compound word. This came in useful back in 2000 when I was on a training deployment to Hohenfels, Germany for a training exercise. Specifically, we were a sapper platoon playing OPFOR (OPposing FORces, the "bad guys") for a joint training exercise between Army units from the US and some of the local German army. So on the last day of what would be our second outing, we'd been out wandering and setting up obstacles all night, and now it was around dawn. Not that we could really tell, since that area of Bavaria is like 90% impenetrable forest and 5% wild pigs.
So we're heading to our rally point where a truck's supposed to pick us up and take us back to the garrison for a shower and some sleep. We're heading towards a large slope leading out of the woods, when we see a convoy coming down the road. "Ah shit. Tell us that isn't a BLUFOR ("good guys") convoy." "Not only is it a BLUFOR convoy, it's the joint unit we're supposed to be harassing."
Like an idiot, our butter-bar lieutenant (well, not ours since our actual LT couldn't make the trip so we picked one up who was maybe three months out of West Point - in other words, a grade-A Total Prick) throws a smoke grenade down towards the convoy to "obscure our assault".
We all look at him like he's a right moron, which of course he was. Ten of us, about sixty of them and do you see the two armored personnel carriers down there you fucking twatwaffle sir?
Through the smoke we can see guys dismount and rush the hill, taking up defensive positions behind shrubs and rocks and stumps and whatnot. It's about a fifty-meter decline, and we can't very well move backwards since our pickup is the other way. The LT's trying to tell us to charge down the hill when his MILES harness (laser-tag stuff that tells you when you get "hit" in a training exercise) goes off. Someone got a lucky shot off from down the hill and pegged the LT. Fantastic.
Well, says the platoon sergeant, last order given was to charge. Corporal Nute, come up with a plan. Me? Sergeant, you know my plans are usually total shit. In fact, I believe there's a note in my personnel file saying "Do not let Nute make plans, his plans are usually total shit."
Okay, here's the plan. It's morning and the grassy hill is slippery with dew, which is why the Germans are having a bit of trouble trying to set up a defilade on a nigh-frictionless surface. So I switch weapons with our SAW gunner and sit on the edge of the hill with my rucksack on my lap. On the count of three, I lean back like I'm in an Olympic luge event, automatic weapon braced against my rucksack, and two guys grab me by the upper arms and launch me feet-first down the hill.
I start firing (blanks, mind you, the vibrations set off the little MILES laser device bolted to the barrel, simulating small arms fire) as I act like a one-man bobsled crew zipping down the hillside, and I shout out the only German phrase that comes to mind a the moment!
"ACHTUNG! FLIEGENDE KINDERSCHEISSE!"
Which basically translates as "Warning, flying baby-shit."
I see this head pop up from behind a stump and clearly hear "Was?"
I rocket by at a pretty high rate of speed, still firing full-auto, spraying shell casings behind me and hearing some satisfying beeps that signal a hit. I slide at full speed into the smoke cloud and collide with someone who starts swearing at me in English. So I figure I'll make use of the confusion and language barrier. "Ach du lieber! Mein schnitzel! Mein kleine schnitzel!"
Yep, time to get up and keep firing. Bang bang, beep beep.
I made it almost all the way across the road before someone nailed me and I fell down "dead". By this time, the rest of the guys were following my lead (the best battlecry being "Aaaaaaas youuuuu wiiiiiiiish...!") and throwing enough smoke to make the small valley look like a Phish concert. Within about two minutes, we were all "dead", but so were twelve of the BLUFOR guys and one of their vehicles.
Afterwards we were sitting around with some of the other "casualties" to get picked up by the truck (training "casualties" get carted off to a resupply area until your unit requests replacement personnel which always happen to look exactly like the guy you just lost, fancy that) and one of the guys asks "So are you guys a Ranger unit or something? SF?"
"No, man. Virginia Army National Guard, 227th Engineers."
"...oh god, please don't tell anyone about this."
So yeah, that's my favorite experience with the wonder that is the German language.
Or "fire-gear" and "flying-gear," which works well for Metal Gear fans. I don't know if it counts as precise words or just "giggling at German," but Germans wishing for a more descriptive word for nipple than "Nippel" can go with "Brustwarze," "breast-wart."
The Finnish language works in the same way as German, you can bend words to give more meaning to them, like the classic example: "juoksentelisinkohan?", which basically means: "I wonder if I should run around aimlessly?" (also, the implied attitude is that it is done halfheartedly)
Also, Pilkunnussija is Finnish as well, and it literally means 'commafucker'. I guess no extra explanation is needed.
Can someone make this the tagline on an LP?
And the next pedantry thread?
Suddenly I like Finnish.
That one's actually gotten a bit of traction in English by virtue of being awesome.
Hey now, that's the only word for them in our language ("brystvorte").
Yep, nothing wrong with the Swedish word "bröstvårta" either. They're simply very sexy warts.
Unfortunately the name has also given rise to the decidedly unsexier "vårtgård", meaning areola but directly translates to "wart-yard".
The thing with the word 'Pilkunnussija' is that while at first the meaning seems obvious to an English-speaking observer, there are deeper nuances to it. Take the word 'fuck' for instance: it can be used in several colorful ways (as in "fucking around", "fuck this" or "fuck off" etc.), but in Finnish 'nussia' is considered to be more literal. As in, yeah, intercourse.
So saying "fucking around" in Finnish ("nussia ympäriinsä"), would be understood as roaming the countryside, being slightly confused, and attempting to copulate with everything. But in a case like this Finns will intuitively understand what it is about, but at the same time they would be slightly unnerved by it.
Therefore when you look at the word 'Pilkunnussija' again, you start to see it a bit differently. It's not simply "a comma fucker" anymore, but a complex and nuanced description of a literary pervert.
It is important to realize that the 'fucking' in this case is not really about pleasure. It is not the point. When you see a 'Pilkunnussinta' performed in its purest form, it would remind you of animal sex in National Geographic: There is grim, yet erotic, determination to it. It is obsessive compulsive perversion.
We all intuitively understand that while a 'Pilkunnussija' does not seem happy to practice his craft, there is a strange mix of excitement in that outrage. We can visualize a person in the middle of a frustrating experience, annoyed and angry. And yet, the keenest observers might spot a sneaky boner.
I think there is something very Finnish about fucking with commas. We love to be effective, educated and right. We do things by the book, properly. It is not about being righteous, but about setting yourself an impossible expectation. And while annoyed by your own inability to reach it, you expect everyone to attempt for it. And when you see people fail, you will correct them.
So all in all, you shouldn't call a person 'Pilkunnussija' lightly, but when you do it, mean it.
I liked your post
mixuk but I felt dirty doing it.
Very very drnk on high quality Bordeaux right now, but my favoritegerman word for the reasons specified b this thread is glühbirne for lightning bulb. Literally glowing pear.
Preferably an RPG with poorly translated instructions. :D
Dude. Language is awesome!
There are so many things to like about this post. But I would like to call out for exceptional merit the two phrases "literary pervert" and "sneaky boner", both of which contain layers with layers of texture that I can barely begin to plumb. Replying with something mildly humorous like "great band name" or "that gives me an idea for a blog" or "this domain name is available" seems feeble and trite in the light of this glory. In short, I'd like to nominate
mixuk for BFer of the day. UnderLum take note!
I think "commafucker" actually evokes pretty much the same connotations in English, mixuk. "Fucker" is a common enough noun but it's unusual to append it directly to a word except for the heavily cliched "motherfucker." A new construction is therefore sort of literal-sounding.
I was rather amused to see that the German name of Ticket to Ride is Zug Um Zug. Talk about something that rolls off the tongue!
Train by Train? Yeah, makes sense. :)
Fun (short) Atlantic article http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...otions-for-which-english-has-no-words/266956/
Not only that, it also means turn by turn.
Tüpflischiisser means a (little)dotshitter, which means that someone is just the worst and most annoying sort of pedant. Because they take as long to dot an i or ü or what-have-you as they would taking a shit.
Another one which i really like is Schütteler, which more or less translates to "a guy who kicks things" and simply means football player.
Separate names with a comma.