Discussion in 'The Bridge Over The River Kawaii' started by Bec, Feb 4, 2013.
Ah, but that one is also relevant to my interests. Just like Deadpool x Spiderman, I'm not picky.
Shipping, to me, stems from my interest in romantic love because I... Can't feel romantic love. (I am aromantic, for those who don't yet know.) I find inter-relationships between characters fascinating, not just romantic ones, but I have shipped a lot of crack pairings since I got into shipping.
I'll also confess I sometimes use the term shipping for non-romantic relationships I support, so if you see that happening, I apologize.
I'm usually okay with what canon provides me, but that has yet to stop me from also shipping side pairings, threesomes, harems, whatever. I guess my lack of comprehension of how romance works may have contributed to that? Who knows. Please note that just because I ship something doesn't necessarily mean I enjoy reading M fics of them. I'm more about the relationship, quite frankly, than the potential sex.
Pairings I support include:
Neuro x Yako from Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro. This one is particular to me because the first time I read the series, I absolutely did not want to ship it. And I mean I hated the idea of them being together romantically. About three quarters into the story, though, I finally gave in because it convinced me. And then I reread the series and the same process happened again, but since I already shipped it I knew it would convince me another time. And boy, did it convince me. I'll elaborate more whenever I finally start that MTNN thread. (Let me also make it clear that I do not ship their anime counterparts. At all.)
Greed/Ling/Lan Fan from Fullmetal Alchemist. (The manga.) I don't know, it convinced me. This is one of the rare series where I don't have side-pairings outside of the canon one, but this is one of them. Don't lie to me, you know this could have worked beautifully.
I also support a friendship between Kimblee and Winry, God knows why, I sure don't, but I think their interactions were fascinating stuff. Before anyone asks, no, I don't support them romantically, and in fact, I don't think Kimblee could ever be romantically interested in anyone anyway!
Mythos/Rue/Fakir/Duck from Princess Tutu. (The manga does not exist.) I occasionally throw Autor in there, but for the most part, this is my solid OT4. I support all of them together as couples, so logically, the next step was to make them all a foursome. Sometimes, I question my sanity.
Neville x Luna from Harry Potter. Regrets? What are regrets? I have none.
Sherlock/Watson/Mary/Irene from the Sherlock Holmes movies. Regreeeeeeeeets, they're a lieeeeeeeee. Shame, on the other hand, I have to spare.
I have never read homestuck, nor do I plan to, but Equius+Nepeta are adorable and my favourite moiral romance. (... I got a lot of secondary exposure to the series through friends into it and by asking questions. I regret nothing.)
I have other pairings as well, but so far, this is all I can remember (because I'm still half asleep). Time to read through the thread and favourite almost everything again.
I have OTP one-sided ships. Like Juta from Otomen, in my headcanon he is in love with Asuka but he will never do anything about it because Asuka and Ryo belong together. And Tomoyo in CCS.
(They also have a bit of a Dorian-Basil relationship with Asuka being the female model for Juta's shoujo manga, but him not knowing what his best friend is doing and Juta panicking about what will happen if he finds out ?
I ship a lot of things.)
You know, I never considered Greed in the equation. I wrote a fanfiction about Bradley and his wife once. Because why not, all I needed was a single line.
I ship a lot of stuff but right now I'm mostly into DeanxCastiel from Supernatural, SherlockxJohn from Sherlock and BrendaxFritz from The Closer, because I'm watching a lot of that stuff lately, so those are fresh wounds.
And Karolyn and Hercules from Cabin Pressure. Because they're awesome, that's why. /sobs quietly about the last season
I mostly ship Rue/Duck and Mythos/Fakir, but I admire your approach and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
I am actually pretty light on the whole shipping thing, don't really mind it one way or another. I just find it amusing to ponder crack-pairings.
Candied Citrus on the other hand is a massive shipper.
The LP forum is my exception, because the way we ship is 500% pure fun. It's awesome.
I ultimately don't care about the ships themselves, but I am incredibly glad we do not get into shipping wars.
I think we're too full of friendly feels to get into shipping wars.
By which I mean is: We all have a healthy dose of respect for each other in this community. We have a surprisingly good grasp on the concept that people will occasionally have clashing opinions, but we take enjoyment in arguing out our point of view in an attempt to understand the other's and because a good discussion is well loved among us.
Key word here being respect.
I feel proudly guilty (guiltily proud?) for shipping crack pairings the majority of the time.
Naruto x Itachi? Sure, why not. Gaara x Ino? Hell, yeah, there was one fanfiction that made it seem possible. And all I need is possibility.
Ulquiorra x Orihime? Maybe they got close while in Hueco Mundo. Same thing with Grimmjow x Orihime.
Banchou x Mafuyu or Broom fighter(?) x Mafuyu? Blushes abound!
Akiyama x Nao (one of the few seemingly canon pairings I ship)
Han Seo x Ha-Ji Kang(?) - don't ask. really.
I ship Yako with everyone: Sasazuka x Yako, Neuro x Yako, Hacker x Yako, and Kaitou X x Yako.
Sometimes I ship people depending on the blushing power of the relationship:
Shiawase Kissa Sanchoume:
Uru x Sou and Mitsuka x Suzuki(Level 3 Blush + Level 5 Blush = Level 8 Blushing Explosion!)
Maybe that's why I like romances in manga? The blushes and flails.
Higuchi Yuuya. Hacker guy is called Higuchi Yuuya.
And like I said, I shipped Yako with a lot of people (except for Sasazuka, that one was strictly platonic), but the main contenders were Neuro, Aya Asia, Godai, Akane and Higuchi. I also have this weird... Not romantic ship between her and HAL. ("But Ran, shipping means romantic--" SHUSH, I KNOW.)
POINT IS: Yako has fantastic dynamics with everyone she encounters and that's one of the main reasons why I love this series so much.
I see we have similar tastes. Blushing power? You are successfully swaying me.
Hmmm. When it comes to shipping, my favorites tend to be characters that either show great chemistry or characters that I think could have interesting chemistry.
I'm typically pretty okay with canon relationships with a few notable exceptions. (In fact, someone here mentioned one they liked that is in fact the one pairing I probably hate the most!) This whole shipping war business is nonsense though. It's fine if you disagree but my goodness have I witnessed some silly behavior on the internet.
Silly Not Quite Relevant rant:
Oh! Wait! I think there is something I could feel comfortable protesting, however. Has anyone heard about the show Elementary? Oh my glob, I watched the first episode and wanted to burn something. Why would you make Watson a girl?! Well, to be honest that isn't exactly what bothered me the most. Apparently female Watson isn't an army doctor but some kind of medical professional that got in trouble and lost her license or something. So of course a female Watson couldn't be an army doctor or competent at her job or anything! Man, when I first heard that we were getting another Sherlock Holmes adaption I was so excited. But then they made Watson a girl...probably because they wouldn't feel comfortable with some of the homosexual undertones the Holmes stories have on occasion. It would have been so much better if they had maybe made both characters female. That'd be a new way to approach things and I could still get my bromance. Or in this case would it be homance?
It's not like I care or anything.
P.S. Yako is coolio.
THEY DID WHAT?
I'M NOT EVEN ANGRY ABOUT THE GENDERBENDING, I'M ANGRY ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE.
EXCUSE ME, WHAT?
But yes, Yako is PURE AWESOME.
Yeah, hearing about Elementary pissed me off. The thing is when you make Watson female and play her as classic "bumbling, silly Watson!" it becomes pretty sexist. If she was intelligent, medical, ladykiller Watson that'd be something else, but when the male half of your duo is the smart one that's always right and the female half is the one who lost her license, never solves any of the cases, gets in the way, and needs to have everything explained to her... Yeah. Better check your unfortunate implications.
I'd love something where both Holmes and Watson were girls, that'd be great. Someone make that.
*subscribes to your newsletter*
I think there are two or three old versions of that, even one where they're both punks. I think it's a comic.
But yes, I really want them to be awesome women and go off fighting crimes together. There aren't even enough genderbended!Sherlock fanfiction to slightly make up for that.
You're such a cool mushroom, I ended up ranting A LOT. REALLY A LOT. IT'S A THING I DO. OFTEN.
And I also hate when people say that if you have a problem with Watson in Elementary it's because you're racist, but that's another issue. Fufufu~
I hate hearing that having a problem with Watson in Elementary means you're a SEXIST who just DOESN'T WANT WOMEN ON TV
No. I'm fine with genderbending classics. That is 100% okay with me. I just don't want it done badly in a way that reinforces stereotypes about women's roles in detective stories.
They did. It's called Rizzoli & Isles. And it's actually really damn good.
Where are these genderbent Sherlock Holmes comics?!
I think Sherlock could be Sherry Locke Holmes whose nickname is Sherlock and John would be Joan Watson.
My youngest sister likes to watch it. I renamed the show 'Crap'. It's pretty funny, since I'll walk in and ask "Are you watching Crap?" and she'll look at me all annoyed and say, "...Yes."
Fun fact: Did you know that the line "Elementary, my dear Watson" isn't in any of Doyle's works?
Guess what I'm going to watch now~
I've read that it has too much focus on relationship issues than crime drama, which seems fairly stereotypical for a genderbent Sherlock Holmes adaption. But I've never seen it, so is that a fair judgement to make?
In defense of Elementary, from the admittedly single episode I've seen, Watson isn't played as bumbling or silly. She's mostly exasperated with Holmes' shenanigans, plays "socially adjusted cop" to his "obnoxious cop" (she has to bail him out of prison after he throws a massive car-wrecking temper tantrum over knowing who the villain of the episode is and not being able to prove it) and generally comes off as legitimately smart enough to actually have been a surgeon (she's the one who notices the clue that ends up cracking the case open).
Now, how she's depicted in subsequent episodes, I have no idea. I admit a certain bias of affection for the concept based on the fact that I spent a couple years playing time-displaced Sherlock Holmes' exasperated female Asian-American surrogate Watson in a superhero tabletop game. Good times.
The first episode, I didn't buy into it, but as I slowly got into more, I changed my mind. I wouldn't consider Watson's depiction as sexist as she gradually takes on more of a role in solving cases; in fact, she's the one who helps Holmes make a major breakthrough in the most recent episode. I think I prefer it over Rizzoli & Isles now. It's more focused on Holmes fictionalized character development recently, but the only thing is...
The relationship between Holmes and Watson in this series must stay completely platonic and based out of respect. I don't know whether it's the dynamics (her being his sober companion), but a romantic relationship would alienate me faster than you can say 'Apples'. I'd still watch it though, but with the queasy feeling I'm sure people get when they watch Boku no Pico (never watched it, don't want to, second-hand exposure from BF).
Joie de Combat, you can predict the future. Props to you!
According to the show creators, it was to address Holmes' canon sexism.
While I, too, am disappointed at the loss of the military background, some have noted that it might be due to the uneasiness of current wars in the US. Also, she didn't lose her license; she accidentally caused a single person's death, and felt guilty about it and so she chose to leave the profession.
Nope. I mean, first, that's only subtext, so... not huge, but second, it's not as if they're pairing together Joan Watson and Sherlock, so... that assumption really isn't founded in anything.
Er, Joan and Sherlock are becoming total BFFs. They're just a man and a woman. Is... that not acceptable or something?
But she's not. Joan is pretty cool, and certainly competent.
None of those are so in Elementary. She was actually the one who found the crucial key in the pilot episode, and has been invaluable (especially with her medical experience) in most cases. She doesn't get in the way, and rarely requires explanation more than anyone else.
I think there are some valid complaints about Joan Watson's character, and I'm certainly not in a position to argue against them, being a guy, but I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions.
Glad to hear it isn't as bad as I thought. Still would be better if they were both female, in my opinion, but I also love it when shows have platonic opposite-sex friends, so I can appreciate it for that, at least.
EmotedLlama it probably isn't as big of a problem as I had complained about, it's quite possible that I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill, but female characters have a tendency to get the short end of the stick when it comes to characterization so I'm a little sensitive to the issue. I'll also admit that I did not continue watching the series, so any problems or suspicions I had initially may have been fixed or did not come to be./shrug
Also, men and women can totally be BFFs. I was more thinking about the tendency television has for such relationships to not remain platonic.
There's definitely a focus on relationships (especially between Moira and Jane) but the crime drama is there and can be particularly brutal at times. I think they came up with a good mix; if it went too far into relationship-type stuff, I don't think it would work. But it's peppered in there just enough that I enjoy both aspects of the show.
Yeah, I've gotta agree that if they ended up pairing Joan with Sherlock I'd probably stop watching. I heard that people involved with it said that's not happening (at least under the current supervision), so hopefully it'll turn out good!
Here! I never read it myself, so I don't know if they're actually good.
I like more Shirley myself, but Sherry Locke sounds good
I knew! It appeared only in the theatrical version, in the same way Sherlock Holmes didn't actually wear a deerstalk. Did you know there is a movie with DINOSAURS?
But being a Sherlock fan as well, I'm also being told that I'm a cis white straight woman who just fetishizes gay relationships and hates women or something, so how should I know.
That's like Moffat saying he changed Irene Adler's storyline about getting married because it was sexist and patting himself in the back for being awesome about how he handled it instead.
My main problem is that John Watson, even if it's a man, a mouse or a fucking robot, is a trusted military doctor who joins Holmes because he likes the adventure.
While Joan Watson isn't a military surgeon (because of reasons), it's not even a surgeon anymore because she gave up her license (because of FEELINGS) and her role is to take care of Sherlock Holmes.
I wouldn't mind too much if the show was anything but a Sherlock Holmes adaptment.
*headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk*
OH MY GOD that pissed me off so much. Because clearly a woman doing things intelligently and cleverly (she uses her acting experience to dress in drag in public so she can tail Sherlock and he'll never know! She's a badass!) for a person she *loves* and wants to be with is sexist, but turning a fairly platonic character into a ~sexy domantrix~ femme fatale who weaponizes sex is *progressive*. Remember, girls: wanting to do things for the person you love is anti-feminist if they're male!
Want to punch your stupid face, Moffat.
Fingers crossed! Hopefully it'll have a relationship similar to the one portrayed by Dowdney and Law (the canon one).
Don't want to totally spoil it for you, but although it starts out as Joan signing on to take care of Holmes, she later discovers that she likes what he does. She wants to learn about it and to do it as well, so it evolves into this mutual teaching thing, an odd symbiotic (?) bond between the two of them.
That was what I didn't like about the British version, "Sherlock". They changed Irene into that. Granted, she is portrayed as clever still, but...
I'm very protective of Irene, because no adaptions ever get her right. She's either too femme fatale, or they make Sherlock in love with her, when he's just supposed to have a fond respect for the woman who bested him. I love Sherlock otherwise, so I was hoping it might do her justice, but then... *sigh*
Agreed. No adaptation I have ever seen shows a platonic relationship built on respect between Sherlock and Irene. Perhaps the movies came the closest despite showing romantic tension between them. Even Elementary makes her the woman Sherlock was madly in love with (another weak point of this series, but I will still watch it). The original "A Scandal in Bohemia" clearly shows that Holmes regards her as an equal "The Woman" that deserves his respect. Not that he flew madly in love with her.
As for explaining why the romance element in adaptations involving them exists, my blush argument won't work. ; _ ; Logic, why do you fail me so?
I really liked Alice from Luther (which I sort of consider to be loosely based on Sherlock Holmes). She's incredibly intelligent, deadly, and well, a little crazy -- but I'm cool with that. I like that even though she's Luther's enemy, he routinely sits down and chats with her, and while Luther is technically her enemy, watches his back behind the scenes. I think it helps that both Luther and Alice are each a little crazy, though.
edit: omg I meant Alice. Alice. Why am I thinking Mary?
THIS. I really love her, so seeing how wrong they got her in Sherlock was heartbreaking.
She doesn't even end up being that clever because [SPOILER 1] was giving her advice all along. And then she [SPOILER 2] because she [SPOILER 3] Sherlock.
I don't think it could have been worse even if they tried. She was just there for Sherlock to think about.
(And I didn't mind much the entire domatrix thing, I thought it could have worked if handled well. )
That's good! I migh try to watch more of it then. It's just that it still bothers me.
Yeah, dominatrix could have worked, nothing wrong with that. Actresses were considered just a step above prostitutes at the time so it makes sense for her to have a job you can't talk about in polite company. It would've been cool if she had a sexy job but didn't use sex as a weapon and tripped up Sherlock the book way, and by herself without anyone's help, and without the other problems you mentioned. But apparently that's just not progressive enough.
Using sex as a weapon would have worked if it was just a weapon, or a way to distract him. Or something.
But we're not in 1981 anymore, so that's what we get. So wonderful
Once again, devil's advocate: making Irene a dominatrix in a modern setting preserves the scandalous nature of her being an opera singer in the Victorian era. Being a woman with any kind of theatrical profession was pretty much considered synonymous with "prostitute" at the time, from what I can tell. Especially if she's then confirmed to have had a relationship with a wealthy man out of wedlock.
Not saying it was a good choice, mind you, I'm just saying it's not coming out of nowhere. There's a reason Watson refers to her as "of dubious and questionable memory."
I actually just covered that in my post above; that's definitely not my biggest problem with her.
Elementary is actually pretty good. Better than BBC, in some respects. The creators said that they want the relationship to be a bromance, except there's a woman, and have made mention of doing multiple takes to make scenes come off as more platonic. Honestly, the amount of respect and care Sherlock has for Joan is incredible, and he admits that he is better with her. Joan tends to call the shots in their relationship for the most part, and Sherlock goes with it because she's always right and he just wants to have her around.
The license thing doesn't bother me too much because, while I've watched the first few episodes so I can't say for sure, it feels like it's going to be integral to the plot. You know "brilliant surgeon makes a fatal mistake that leads him/her on an angsty search for redemption/ truth of what happened on that fateful day" sort of thing. I would have preferred if Sherlock was a woman, but it's always nice to see a man and a woman being friends on tv. it's also nice see a human Sherlock who actually suffers the effects of drug addiction and feels human, not a perfect robot god that everyone falls in love with, even lesbians apparently. And I'm plenty happy to have Joan, because frankly I've seen enough straight white dude eye fucking to last me a lifetime. It weirds me out when people call the show homophobic, because how so?
waahhhh I missed the Elementary discussion...
Basically, this. Elementary!Sherlock respects Watson immensely, and she knows exactly how to shut him down when he gets too obnoxious. The medical license versus army doctor thing....honestly, I don't necessarily see why it matters much? I mean, Watson can still want adventure without being in the army. And this Watson seems more interested in the "deducing" aspect than the adventure one--Sherlock admits she's becoming pretty good at investigating herself and she manages to singlehandedly finish off the latest case (it's her observation that lets Sherlock realize he was looking for the killer in the wrong group of people). I, also, like that Sherlock isn't a complete dick.
Um. I have lots more feels if anyone wants them. But no really, I love this show. I get the feeling that Sherlock respects Joan a lot, and when he asks her to stay--he asks her. Like, actually asks her. Doesn't tell her to, doesn't beg, doesn't try to play any games to coax her into anything. He asks her and tells her to think about it. Just...can you imagine that with BBC!Sherlock? Because I sure as hell can't.
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