Steamed: The case for or against a dominant digital store

Please use this thread to debate the merits of Steam being the dominant online game store. Also feel free to share your thoughts on some of the alternatives, such as:

• Gamefly (formerly Direct2Drive)
• GamersGate
• Good Old Games (known more commonly now as gog.com)
• Green Man Gaming
• Origin

Some questions to ponder:

• How confident are you in the long term viability of such services? Are you concerned you'll look access to your games?
• Do any of the alternatives to Steam do things better? How so?
• Are the secondary services Steam offers (chat, Steam Workshop, etc.) just as important as having everything in one place?
• Which is preferable, being able to sell used PC games or deeply discounted pricing during sales? Do you want both?
• Is the lowest price the bottom line, wherever that price may be?
• Half-Life 3: Real or imaginary?

Yeah, I'm most happy when my purchase on one service works on others. Steam is probably the least likely to accommodate that unfortunately, with the otherwise disappointing Origin surprisingly being the most likely.

Like any other monopoly, it's great as long as it's a run by a benevolent dictator.

Yeah, something I didn't mention but is worth looking at is of the five alternatives to Steam I listed, at least two will sell you games that may in turn require Steam to run, helping to further cement Steam as the dominant platform needed to play games (regardless of where they are bought). Is this just convenient or a little too 'putting all your eggs in one basket' for comfort?

And Origin will also allow you to input keys for EA games purchased elsewhere, though on a more limited scale.

Gamefly: Pretty much went off my radar after they absorbed Direct2Drive. I'd bought some stuff on D2D before because Steam wasn't quite all-encompassing yet, or because of some minor detail (their Sims 3 expansions included both PC and Mac downloads). But, nothing really distinguishes them now, so they keep slipping from my thoughts.

GamersGate: Good for some really niche stuff that has only started showing up on Steam fairly recently, but it is annoying to have to go back and manually check for and apply patches.

GOG: Great, though I suspect I'm feeding my nostalgia more than getting any actual play out of what I've been buying there. The recent shift to newer, full-priced games hasn't really grabbed me yet, not because of 'losing their focus' or anything like that but just that they've also got patching issues, and sales are much weaker. DRM-free is nice, but saving $10-$20 by waiting for it on Steam is also nice...

Green Man Gaming: No direct experience with it, I just hear about how I could have gotten an extra 5% off a Steam key after I'd already bought it...

Origin: I didn't really actively seek out games on here, I just wound up having a bunch of EA games that could be registered on it. Eh, it does its job of managing the library well enough, no real big complaints or praise there. Sales are confusing though, with a few that were US-only, or buried in a store that's also trying to sell me physical copies of console games. There are only a couple games I've bought on here, and I could have bought them on Steam instead, but Origin just happened to beat them to a sale, otherwise I haven't really run into any trouble from the EA/Valve tiff.

Steam: And of course it's no coincidence that Steam got mentioned in all of the above... It's still where the majority of my digital games are, and where they'll mostly continue to come from if the sales keep up. Although certainly not perfect (why does it take soooo looooong to start up?), it's been the least hassle and highest value of all of the services. Losing access is a concern in the back of my mind, and it's not that I necessarily trust Steam, but they seem to have gotten to that "too big to fail" point where the series of events that would have to happen for Steam to have to suddenly shut down and leave everyone gameless seem less and less likely. It might be little more than blind faith, but it's good enough for a hobby of mine.

Yep, Steam has been nothing but a positive in my view, with GoG having a separate niche.

Same way that Kindle has made buying and reading books much easier for me (and so >> my consumption of books) Steam has had the same effect on games.

In both cases, I don't begrudge the owners making an economic rent from having control of distribution. Because, IMHO, they have both added considerable value to the distribution chain vs mail order/ bricks & mortar.

Rather than debate anything, I'll just let my actions speak for me:

Steam: I buy all my older games, always on sale. Last full-priced new-release I purchased here was Skyrim, back in 2011. I've also picked up a ton of indie games that are always on sale during their first couple days on Steam.

GreenManGaming: I buy all my new(er) releases, but only when there's a 25+% discount code I can use, and only when it activates on Steam (with the only exception on the second part being Guild Wars 2, which doesn't really activate anywhere anyway). Occasionally, I'll stack a big sale (on an older title) with a 25% off code, but typically it's my new release store (since it almost always has the best prices for those). These are the titles I've picked up here:



GoG: I buy all my nostalgia games, I don't always wait for sales.

Origin: I haven't purchased anything here yet, but I'll be using it starting next month when I begin playing SimCity V.

GFWL: I purchased a ten cent copy of Age of Empires III Complete. I haven't installed it yet, but it's there. I also use it when required for Steam games like Dark Souls (which I purchased on GMG, activated on Steam and have to play through GFWL).

GameFly/Direct2Drive: When D2D shut down I activated what I could (I lost some stuff because it didn't transfer), and just left the rest to rot in oblivion. I had already played through all this stuff anyway, so I didn't care all that much.

Amazong Digital: I'll buy anything that's on sale that I can activate on Steam. Sofar I've picked up about 6-8 titles this way.

Indie Games: There are a couple indie games I buy direct from the developers when they might not ever make it to a storefront I use, or when I expect a Steam-key to become available at some point in the future anyway. This includes titles like Distant Worlds, A Valley Without Wind, all Soldak games, Starfarer, and a few others here and there.

I prefer a submissive digital store.

I just buy from the cheapest store for each game. When you live outside the US, the difference between the cheapest store and the second cheapest can be massive, depending on the level of regional pricing shenanigans going on.

There's a problem with any retailer (and Steam is a retail platform) having an estimated 50% to 70% of market share. Plus they really have started to train gamers to wait for the sales and thus put a downward pressure on game prices (which is great for gamers, terrible for sellers in most instances, especially game studios that live from project to project).

And if Steam ever decides / is ever forced to offer second-hand sales, indie game revenue is going to take a beating.

I have no cares available for it being a near-monopoly, because of the convenience of having almost everything in one place, and the social network side of it. That works out to be a plus for much the same reason that all my friends being on Facebook instead of spread piecemeal across 3 different social networks is a plus.

When stores that aren't Steam handle patching the way Steam does I'll start buying from them. Well, actually I'd prefer they handle it like Origin which while a failure in terms of pricing, handling resuming from sleep (hello high CPU usage!) and client updates (checking only on launch?), is actually written in a way which respects Windows file permissions and makes proper use of UAC and services.

This is a good point. While I prefer to install and run games through Steam, I prefer to buy them through the Humble Store, where I will get a Steam key where available, but also have a second DRM-free central download library if anything were to ever happen to Steam. Plus also Android versions where they are available

You can add any old app to Steam, I used to run Bloodbowl that way before it made its way to Steam. ThornFalconeye does this all the time, and you get to name how the app shows to others this way, so he's always got some random screed that can be hard to decipher.

Downward pressure on game prices does not necessarily correspond to lower profits for publishers and/or studios. Lower prices mean less money per sale, but more sales. The result might be more, less, or no change in revenue for any given seller.

ITT people don't understand what "monopoly" means.

I WANNA BE THE SHOE

Against, I am concerned about maintaining ownership of my games over the very long term, and the more time passes, the least incentive there is for it to be respected if there is DRM on the platform. I see that next-gen consoles might possibly require a permanent Internet connection, and serial numbers, and I progressively see a world where we do not own any of the entertainment we buy anymore, we only rent it so long as the closed platform provider allows us access to it. I only buy DRM-free games, except when it is something I really want, and in that case I wait for 80%+ discounts on the original price if DRM is included. If I am allowed to retain control, I am far more likely to purchase, like I will with Divinity: Original Sin for example.

I am also gravely concerned about Steam's customer service, who tends to be unresponsive, arrogant, and to lock people out of their entire game library for dubious reasons. You should retain access to your previously purchased games under any circumstances, and for Valve to arbitrarily remove it from you is very worrisome.

I also look at Steam Greenlight with great suspicion, I see it as a trojan horse, allowing Valve to gain more control, more free publicity, and more prominence. If someone makes a niche game with poor graphics and complex gameplay, they could not have the fanbase to mobilize to get sufficient votes to get onto the platform. I frankly see Valve controlling fiercely who gets on the platform as unnecessary. Gamersgate welcome any game so long as it is working, so does the App Store, and those platforms aren't diluted for it.

And anyway, Steam is already dead as a platform for discounts, we saw last winter Amazon beating it up by TKO. But it was predictable, they will never have comparable muscle to the Amazon juggernaut.

...and Steam won't let Grimoire on there, even though I've worked really hard for years on it.

I have no fears about losing access because steam goes belly up. If anything, I'm far more concerned that my various purchases will shut off their various auth servers far before then.

I view steam much as the glue that keeps a large amount of PC gaming running. It's replaced stores (and is relatively pluggable with other stores like amazon keys for steam), it's put a knife into gamespy once and for all, and it's absolutely amazing from a marketing standpoint.

If anything, I'm far more annoyed when I have to waste resources because I wanted to play a few different games and wind up with Steam, Origin, Stardock's thing and Desura all open for various reasons. Of all of them, Origin's probably the only one that really bugs me, just because it's a pretty shoddy marketing UI to buy things, and only exists because of two or three games I want to play that require it.

I also question if Amazon is really killing Steam sales. While it's true for hardcore followers of the discount gods, I'd actually suspect plenty of people see the high discount numbers on steam's various store pages and popups and just impulse buy while they're there.

edit: honestly, the only down side I have seen to Steam is that their customer support is absolutely useless.

Except that Steam requires you to have the client running in the background for the game to even play, while other clients do not.

You know all of these self-imposed rules makes you a weirdo, right? Technological luddites amaze me.

Which people were these where this happened? I think you'll find the vast majority of people who were locked out "for no reason!" actually had been so for a reason. Like this dipshit who later admitted he was selling games - gifting them to people in exchange for real-world cash. When the dude got a lawyer Valve let him have his games back despite clearly violating the TOS for Steam. Many of the other complaints are along the lines of "I was hacked and they got my email account that I have linked to Steam and Steam is being all mean to me!" As if it is Steam's fault you got hacked. Also Steam customer service generally replies to you in 24-48 hours.

Wait you mean if someone makes a shitty looking game that nobody understands how to play Steam might not approve it? CRAZY TALK. Oh wait you're the Grimiore guy, never mind. Are you going to buy that on DVD from Amazon when it comes out?

Uhhhh OK wow things sure are weird on your planet. On Earth the reason why (anecdotally) less people took part in the recent sale was 1) it came too soon after the sale before it and 2) a lot of the games people had already purchased from Steam on sale (see #1). That doesn't make it "dead" just "temporarily saturated." And until Amazon offers the incredibly diverse range of games Steam does, Steam will always have plenty of market share.

Have a look a bit around the Internet, see if a desire for DRM-free games is such an eccentric idea.

Steam has also been shown to lock you out of your account if one of your credit card transactions was to go bad, per opposition to locking you out from purchasing games.

These concerns are serious, I want to make sure that I am not locked out of my entire game library, representing thousands of dollars of purchases, and without any recourse for getting it back.

Not necessarily, I don't like that running a grassroots viral campaign is becoming a prerequisite. I wasn't necessarily thinking about Grimoire. If there was a brand new company like Paradox, but indie and making the same kind of games, but without publishing mainstream titles, would they stand a chance? Would most of the Matrix Games catalogue stand a chance of gaining entry?

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=93144364

This guy would be an example, he made a fully functional, and fun step-based first person RPG à la Might and Magic. But because the graphics are too bad, he probably will not be allowed entry, since it's impossible to garner enough votes. He has a niche.


I don't understand why we cannot let the market decide what is a good game and what isn't, and let those who have their niche enjoy their niches.

It's more than that, I was partaking on a popular Steam thread, and watching on other sites too. Amazon simply had much better discounts for many games, while Steam's discounts paled in comparison to past years. Amazon obviously has much more clout to obtain better bargains out of publishers, since it's a much bigger company.

The notion that a game must be allowed on Steam in order for the market to decide seems like an implicit acceptance of the idea that Steam is the whole market, and I don't think it's quite there yet. I've gone to places like Gamersgate for niche games, and I've done so less now that a lot of them have started showing up on Steam, but if Steam starts rejecting worthwhile niche games, then I'll start buying them from Gamersgate again.

The oldest PC game that I own that I'm practically able to play without buying it again from GOG or something is...Half-Life. Because there it sits in my Steam library, despite being released umpteen years before Steam was a glimmer in Gabe Newell's eye. Everything else...well, I suppose I do still have the discs in a binder here, and I think I still have the CD keys recorded somewhere, and man I'm already losing interest just thinking about going through that trouble. Seriously, I'd rather pay $5 to GOG than deal with having to put a CD in the drive.

I have substantially more confidence in the long-term persistence of my Steam library than I do that binder of CDs. Bit-rot aside, I put the odds of someone stealing it or it being destroyed in a fire at higher than my account being locked or Valve going out of business or what have you.

I get the theoretical objections, but in a practical sense, this brave new world is a pretty significant upgrade over the old one for me. And the risk profile is pretty minimal; worst case, I'm forced to repurchase and/or pirate whatever lost purchases I actually care about. Given that 90% of my Steam library consists of things I'm realistically never going back to (I enjoyed Zeno Clash and all, but I'm done with it now) and the price of the ones I do want falls dramatically over time, it'd probably only cost a few hundred dollars to recover.

I am concerned about access to games I bought, too. Maybe if Steam and the others would respect first-sale doctrine, I could back up my games and access them when I wanted, instead of needing Steam's permission. If it ever becomes a major problem however, there's always piracy.

I'd go as far to say that as long as piracy is alive and active, there will always be an avenue around DRM that goes too far.

Because then Steam looks like the fucking Indie section of XBox Live. And since Steam doesn't force any developer to make a demo, it would rather have the odd niche game not get through than to have its service become a god damn free for all for completely shitty products and F2P models, though they're letting the latter through and that bothers me a little.

Other than that your arguments are fucking amateur hour. But then again I'm convinced this thread was created as a ghetto for heloder and that other guy whose opinions are wrong.

Of my clients, only Desura lets me run everything without starting the client in the background.

edit: I guess my problem is, what has Steam done to get this lack of faith from people? It's a service that provides a really good market for PC games at a time when people had pretty much abandoned it.

Even my best friend, whom I've played video games with since we were in junior high, was ready to give up on the PC when the PS3 and 360 rolled around, saying that PC gaming was dead and would be handily beaten by console gaming as more developers abandoned it.

I told him he was wrong then, and because of Steam I can tell him how wrong he was now.

This is not correct. There are games that can be purchased from Gamefly, Origin, Green Man Gaming and GamersGate that all require a client to play, sometimes their own (eg. GMG's Capsule), sometimes a third party's.

Likewise, there are games that can be purchased from all of these vendors -- including Steam -- that don't require a client to be running (virtually all MMOs as one example, many indie games as another). Of the ones I listed in the OP only gog.com can truly claim to be DRM-free and their selection of new games remains pretty small.

You may want to read this story on Gamasutra where Newell states Greenlight will be going away in favor of a more open process. You may eventually get your vast sea of junk.

Is it not possible the Steam sales generated the incentive for Amazon to provide better deals? If Steam is 'already dead as a platform for discounts' where will that incentive be in the future?

Also, Steam lists 2366 games under $10 and 1275 under $5, which is pretty good for a dead discount platform.

Oh hey look you replied to me and totally changed the subject, how interesting.

Fixable. Are you serious? I have changed credit cards at least 3 or 4 times with Steam and it's never been a problem.

I am guessing "emailing Steam" is synonymous with "without any recourse."

What? Paradox games are on Steam. Plenty of indie developers are on Steam. This makes no sense.

"probably" "impossible" You do not know either of these things.

A guy whose game doesn't get enough votes isn't the market deciding in action?

So we're just yet again gloss over the part where Steam has dozens if not hundreds of games you cannot buy through Amazon? Because I'll keep repeating it. To toss an example out, Legend of Grimrock, one of my favorite games of recent.

Yes, but unlike Steam, the Amazon juggernaut lets gamers take their love of the games even one step further, one example being Grimrock swag!


Why play games when you can just wear them?

For those wondering, at $50 the hoodie only costs a little over three times as much as the game itself.

But at least you own it, until it goes threadbare and winds up at Goodwill.

As I understand it, they suspend your account if you do a charge back on them as a way to get refunds. Which doesn't really bug me, as it's fighting against a refund policy you dislike by a pretty shitty means.

Simply getting your card declined (changed cards, whatever) doesn't get you any kind of action on your account.

I've heard the story, but has anyone seen a confirmed version of it? And by confirmed I mean more than someone posting in a forum that that's totally the reason it happened.

And seriously, in this day and age, who gives a flying fuck if the client has to run in the background? Are you using a 486 with 32 megs of RAM?

Well, yes. But the client seems to be using only 15% of my overhead. I can live with that.