Discussion in 'My Souls So Dark' started by jeffd, Dec 10, 2012.
Oh, yes, I have that. Yeah, that's exactly what happened to me.
I think my second and third characters (there was a lot of time in between) were both held up because I forgot where that key was.
So all this time I heard about Blighttown and how it was really daunting and the first intro to it was so rough. I felt this was kind of silly after going down there, seeing as I'd gone through the Valley of Drakes, down a tunnel, then down a few ladders, then there. Sure there were a few blowdart snipers, but it wasn't anything too horrible.
What I hadn't done, was try to get there via The Depths. I did that last night.
Suffice to say, if I'd gone that way right after I'd taken out the Gaping Dragon, odds are I'd have rage quit the game forever.
edit: I posted before coffee and it was dumb so I deleted it.
Just thought I'd comment on this. If you want to do a lot of jolly co-operation, the Warriors of Sunlight covenant is always the best one to pick. Why? Well, it has a very special boon for co-op: normally, the soul level range at which you can summon and be summoned by other players is something like +/- 10% of your soul level plus 10, which means(for example) that at SL 1, the highest SL phantom you can summon or be summoned by is 12. HOWEVER, if you're a Sunbro, that gets extended to +/- 20% of your soul level plus 10. Naturally, this doesn't have much of an impact at low levels, but once you're past, say, the Capra Demon, it'll start affecting how much you can summon and be summoned for jolly co-op.
I felt much the same way my first time through. On my second play through I did not take the master key (dumb!) and went through that whole trek to Blighttown to avoid it from the depths. And every play through since on my xbox (NG++ with my sorcerer, faith dude, and that first character in NG+) went in through there. However, on the PC, I decided to man up and do it again despite having the master key (plus I wanted that tail chop on the gaping dragon), and you know what, like all things DARK SOULS, it wasn't so terrible. What killed me the most was trying to jump for that weapon and then getting mobbed when I missed it. Of course 5 more play throughs help hone my skills a little bit.
Yeah, I had the same experience when I went in after something (the Shadow set, maybe?) for the first time after god only knows how many times skipping it. It was a lot shorter than I remembered, and really not that bad as long as you deal with the blowdart guys one way or another. I still don't go that way when I'm trying to get to the bottom, but I no longer mind it if I want some of the treasure there.
It wasn't really difficult given all that I'd already been through elsewhere. I was just thinking of it from the perspective of it being the natural progression from the Gaping Dragon (seeing as he drops the key for that door). That just seems cruel to me.
Yeah getting the Iaito is a real pain in the ass. If you just head for the bottom without worrying about the loot it's not too bad, but then if you don't want the loot, why bother?
Well of the loot, only the Iaito is really hard to get. The Shadow Set and Crimson Set are pretty easy to snag on the way down and the Eagle Shield and Power Within are accessible from the bonfire in the middle. I guess the Whip is pretty easy to miss, but if you care about the Whip you're probably somebody who doesn't mind going to a little bit of trouble to get it.
The problem really is that there's a bunch of good loot in the upper Blighttown area as you point out. First run characters will likely want much of that (Eagle Shield, Power Within, the Shadow Set for lower Blighttown, Dat Skirt, etc.) that by passing it can actually be a bit of a hindrance later on.
My sorcerer went into Blighttown from the Valley and let me tell you, going in from the bottom to get some loot was a pain. First thing, though, DAT SKIRT is gotten by the scaffold around the lift. Second thing, I'm so unfamiliar with that way that I wanted to get Power Within (I'm curious how blasty this mage could get with all these things stacking) but didn't know the way. Maybe later.
Anyway, I was getting mobbed by mosquitoes, I didn't have a fog ring (and was doing a bit of YOLO) and was getting angry. Tried hidden body, but that didn't really help. I finally slowed down let the mosquitoes respawn quit and then worked my way up. Then I was OK, except for not finding power within (screw the eagle shield).
Eh... maybe, maybe not. Power Within is the only really big loss that can't be replaced or approximated with something else. The bigger issue I think is that if you're skipping Upper Blighttown, does that mean you're also skipping Lower Undead Burg and the entirety of The Depths? If so, you're missing out on a lot more stuff in that case.
I skipped lower undead burg in NG+ and when it came time to make Smough's hammer found i was missing the LE. Nuts.
So blasty. Power Within is so awesome. Considering the fact that I was knocking the Sanctuary Guardian around for >1,100 per hit last night with just GMW and PW in melee, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Crystal Soul Spears doing in excess of 2,000 damage with it, and I have no idea just how ungodly Pursuers could be. What you should really try though is also using the Red Tearstone Ring. It makes the timing a little fussy but those two together nearly doubles your damage output which is insane.
I think that I may be going back to Blighttown.
I finally reached the bottom of Blighttown last night. Screw that scaffolding. I'm not touching it again if I don't have to.
Do you have a source for this? My understanding is that this was an early mistake in interpretation when people were unaware that the source of the 10+10% was the summonee vs the summoner. As far as I have seen there is no difference in level range.
I've completed a draft of a guide to the first hours of Dark Souls. It's intended to cover from Firelink Shrine through the Taurus Demon. It's not a walkthrough so much as a primer on the game's systems; mainly inspired by Blackadar's troubles. It's also a bit longer than I'd anticipated it being. If folks wouldn't mind having a look and providing feedback, I'd appreciate it!
I'm going to add a few appendices regarding stuff like humanity, PVP/Coop, and Covenants, magic, and longer-term character development... Once I learn more about them!
I assume you're talking about the neverending stretch with the swaying bridges and the Infested Ghouls and the fire dogs. I'm pretty sure you can safely go through the rest of the game without ever touching it again.
Excellent. I think I got 90%+ of the loot on the way down (including that katana that you have to jump for) so I'm not going back up. Time to fight off poison!
In fact you never have to ever go there! Ever! In any playthrough, in any situation! Unless you want to grab a particular item that's not available elsewhere. But you can live without all of them.
Equip as much of the poison-resist stuff as you can, and otherwise just manage it with Estus flasks. Only use Purple Moss to fix it if you know you're not going back in the sludge.
No need to worry about poison resist. You are going to get poisoned so the resist offers little value for the effort.
Yeah the poison is annoying but it's not life threatening in and of itself; it's just something to keep an eye on as you engage stuff.
Protip: crossbows make dealing with the mosquitos about a hundred times easier.
Seems like a good start, although at times it read like a script in search of a video primer since some things are so much easier to show than to tell. Some details: the binos are not that useful for looking around, but they are really useful for aiming crossbows and thrown items (especially knives). The latter especially are often missed by new players, and they can really help you thin groups and snipers alike.
Shield section seems like it could use a more succinct "keep your shield up when in doubt, once hit try to find times to have it down to let stamina regenerate" and a quick mention of the key characteristics (phys resistance and stability) tha they need to have in mind when comparing shields. Likewise, a mention of poise as the system by which not only you but also man-sized enemies are ruled in terms of what happens to your ability to do stuff when you get hit is probably important. When you tell someone not to do something, give a reason, even if truncated. Don't level resistance-it's a dump statistic for balancing starting classes for all practical purposes, or whatever. That creates a useful divide between "this is almost always a bad idea" and "avoid this for now". I would link to the backstab and parry video of your choice in the OP or elsewhere for the two moves, just because they have a lot of subtleties, most notably the huge advantage for group fights of being invulnerable and downing enemies quickly. I wouldn't be shy about linking to other videos rather than using walls of text where appropriate.
Good stuff, though.
Yeah. The main priority is finding that bonfire and kindling it, so you have ten estus to keep chugging and an easy starting point. I pretty much stay poisoned the whole time apart from when I head into the hollow or go to fight the boss.
You're off to a great start! Some comments, moving from top to bottom in the document:
isn't technicallly true. Hitting A the first time does pick up the item. The second press is to dismiss the notice of what you picked up, but if you don't press A the second time and then die or something, you do have the item.
- I would add details for the suicide run in Valley of the Drakes. You don't need entries for all of the suicide runs, but the VoD one is important, more important than the graveyard one even I'd say, (so you can remove that if you don't want to spend too much time on suicide runs), because it gives you an awesome shield instead of a so-so one and a weapon that will be immediately useful for faith characters, instead of eventually useful like the Zweihander is.
- A quick correction: L1 and R1 navigate the menu, not L2 and R2 (unless they both do).
- If you want to be more specific about encumbrance, the limit is endurance + 40. I'd stay away from formulas for the most part in a guide like this but that one is probably simple enough to include.
- I'm not entirely sure about this part:
This might be true and it might not at <50%, but I can tell you that it's definitely not true at <25%. It's not gradual, but there are something like four or six different roll speeds available in the <25% range. I wouldn't necessarily go into that much detail about it but you might be opening a can of worms by mentioning this.
- The paragraph on poise is a little muddled because of this:
Poise damage isn't related to damage damage. It's a function of weapon type (with certain weapons having more or less than the normal amount for their type, naturally), representing the physical impact of the weapon rather than the actual damage caused. This is a balancing factor for halberds, for example, which otherwise seem to do everything well relative to other weapon types. Might want to clarify this so as not to plant a seed of misinformation.
- Typo early on in the combat section: shield is L1, not R1.
- You can put down a friendly summon sign even if you aren't human. IIRC you need to be human to invade with a red orb but not with the blue orb (Blades of the Darkmoon), but the second distinction is obviously too advanced to be included here.
- You can leave (and read, and rate) messages while hollow.
- My preference would be to not even mention the possibility of playing offline, because even though you recommend against it someone might decide to just do it without really trying the online play first.
- When you discuss kicking, you should definitely mention that curved swords and thrusting swords don't kick, otherwise anyone who starts as a wanderer and reads this will be pulling their hair out trying to pull it off.
- Not that it's important, but I don't know that the undead merchants are named Male and Female, I just thought they didn't have names so that's what people called them.
- I would say buy keys even if you have the Master Key, to keep it simple. Most of them you need anyway, including that one.
- One tip I don't see here that you might want to add is an explanation of how to cast a spell (i.e. equip the spell tool, switch to it, press attack). I remember that confounding me early on.
Really good guide so far. I love everything about it that I didn't call out for corrections/additions, but I especially love your explanation of stamina, which is a very readable and understandable introduction to a very important and sometimes complex issue.
Should it be noted that the Valley doesn't need to be a suicide run? You can turtle behind the nearby cliff wall, periodically poking your head out to slap the dragon in the leg. It takes forever, and if you miss the timing you're dead at low SL, but when you're starting the game that's a good amount of souls.
Hey speaking of guides, I was thinking of making a thread for a guide and discussion of upgrade paths, since people seem to be endlessly confused by them. Not just instructions (i.e. that graphic that keeps getting posted), but also what each of them are good for, if anything. Anyone interested/think that would be useful?
Eh. Realistically for a new player it's a suicide run. If you're writing a guide that includes a warning that you're probably going to die climbing the stairs from FLS to Undead Burg at least once, your target audience is probably not about to take down the undead dragon.
Oh, totally missed that section on poise. Good call. I thought Jeff was just kidding around with the Male and Female thing, but you could build a whole other guide that would be utterly unreadable around the question of names in the game. Also, you knock on doors, but nock arrows.
Thanks for the feedback! I'll begin incorporating it. I think I'm going to leave the broader discussion of humanity and online interaction to an appendix; for the purposes of this guide I'll walk them through the very basics of becoming human and kindling a fire and then say "For more on what being human does, scroll down to the appendices"
- I didn't include the VoD suicide run because (I think) it's Master Key specific and the guide is intended (as stated) to make no assumptions about starting characters. I plan on creating an appendix to go over the various doors that Master Key opens.
- Likewise I don't include magic because not everyone starts with magic. A subject for another appendix!
And yes, the guide assumes you have never played Dark Souls before. It's a guide to your first two or three hours (give or take) with the game. So stuff like killing the Zombie Dragon is beyond its scope. :)
It might be more appropriate as a video primer at points, but I have a big bias against video guides (various reasons, see the Kerbal thread for my rant on the subject) so text it is! I do think I'm going to include some pictures to point out a few things.
I would say "doesn't need to be a suicide run" or, god forbid, grinding away at the dragon take a backseat to making it clear you can grab the two items on each side and not trigger him (if you are careful about inching forward) and then make a dead man dash into the shield, which is the only one that really matters to most any build. This is a time when that whole A to pick up A to dismiss item screen stuff becomes crucial because you can easily find yourself whiffing at the A button while the dragon rains death on you.
I don't find the bandit gear or the red ring compelling early game gear (and that hyper aware bridge wyvern is a dick), so I generally avoid that, but it's certainly an option. I think I've gotten that humanity in the side cave next to the wyvern once the entire time I've been playing the game.
Unless you don't mind backtracking, you really better have all your ducks in a row before heading for the Depths and Blighttown (a +5 weapon, a +5 shield, and maybe some armor upgrades). It's gonna be a while before you see A) sunlight, and B) anyone who sells titanite shards. It does add to the atmosphere that the deeper you go, the further you get from civilization, but it can be frustrating.
Those both make sense. I know it's tough to figure out what to include because there's a lot but you can't make it too unwieldy to be useful. You're doing a great job so far.
Also, I'd say have a look at existing master key guidelines before reinventing the wheel. I think the main thing you could bring to the table is "what the master key can do for you as a starting player", meaning stacking both cheesy and clever solutions (summon the guy with the coolest gear to help you take out Havel!) and so on. But I don't know.
Another question: I'm sort of inconsistent insofar as how I walk people through using the UI. Should I just assume that people can figure out how to navigate the various menus and whatnot on their own?
Is there a way to rebind Xbox 360 controls with the PC version? I don't know who's idea it was to default your two most used weapon abilites to R1/L1 but by god is it frustrating.
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