Discussion in 'My Souls So Dark' started by jeffd, Dec 10, 2012.
You do. However, if you have the lantern from the catacombs, then you can use it to get to the first bonfire in the Tomb of the Giants and find another in short order (Patches will show you where it is). If you don't have the lantern from the catacombs, then killing all the necromancers (versus most of them) will get it for you. Generally speaking, though, extar is implying that lanterns are the hardest path to lighting because the lantern has to be used in place of your shield, which is completely true. Nevertheless, unless your build leaves room for delaying a trip to the Tomb til after the Sunlight maggot (none of mine do because I consider the silver ring an integral part of my lifestyle) or includes space for magic sufficient to get the spell, it's still something I've done enough now that it's not a huge problem. Still a lot more nerve-wracking than the alternative, though.
Me too. You just go get the silver ring early and then trade the lantern in, and return at your leisure with a better light source when it's time to finish the level once and for all.
II somehow got two of the skull lanterns, so I traded one of them for the ring.
Nope, wasn't her. I killed her earlier. The PvP'er got me while I was farming leaches. He must have spawned right near me, since I barely had any time.
Yes, yes, we all know your former gamespy name.
When does the Dark Souls Psychology of Games article come out? I think there are a few articles with this game.
Ironically, I'm too busy playing.
I actually have 2 or 3 ideas I'm planning on investigating, though.
Don't turn off your Internet connection, or don't forget to?
Don't turn it off.
Oh, I didn't respond to this, but did you really lose anything? If you're farming leaches in the swamp I'm fairly sure retrieving your bloodstain was trivial. I'm not sure why the angst about turning off your internet. And now that you're hollow, no more invading. Or you could have killed the boss, then farm. You guys know that when the area boss(es) are killed that you won't get invaded anymore, right?
NO I DID NOT KNOW THAT. WHAT THE FUCK, DARK SOULS?
Also, when you get PvP killed you kinda lose a humanity since you go hollow and have to spend another one to go human again. Of course I was probably going to die anyway, but it's still annoying.
I can empathize with feeling humanity poor, but recall that you will get one (soft) humanity for each successful boss co-op you do. So if you need one to turn human, co-op.
Don't forget you can pick up soft humanity every now and then just for killing humanoid enemies I think. I was farming the slime corridor in the Depths and I went from 0 humanity to 6 without doing anything other than killing two hollows and the slimes.
Note: That only works if you haven't killed the boss in the area yet.
It's also pretty hilariously inefficient.
Lately I've been getting a nice stock of humanity by farming the leeches in Btown while helping people with Quelaag. She's a fast coop run and thus far I haven't been hit by any gankers down there.
You don't have to be human to get summoned to help in coop, right?
Also, I'm pondering what weapon and upgrade to pursue next. I have a +5 fire halberd and a +10 Zweihander. Can't currently upgrade either any more. I'm doing a str build and have a few big weapons like the dragon battle axe and the demon machete, but lack the str and/or dex to use them. Heading into Sen's Fortress momentarily.
But if you need humanity to reverse hollow to summon help for the boss...
Don't worry about that too much. Chances are you'll get invaded and ganked before you can even find a summon symbol.
Point being, it's much easier to learn how to solo a boss than it is to learn how to PvP.
Good news: as of now, everyone knows what your opinion of Dark Souls PvP is. It's official. No need to spread it around so much anymore; at last, you can take it easy and only post your PvP-related snark in the PvP thread, instead of advising new players (since that's what this thread is for) to never turn human or attempt to summon help at all.
I don't particularly like invasions, but you're making it sound like turning human is an instant death sentence. It's been my experience that it's a LOT easier (especially with something like O&S) to find someone to summon, even if you occasionally get invaded. In 60 hours of playing I've been invaded less than 10 times.
And seriously. This fucking game. I'm hopelessly addicted and my backlog is starving to death.
It has been for me! My router must be very promiscuous.
I just made it to O&S, so it's time for that shitshow!
I run around hollow most of the time. Not because I dislike PVP, but at this point I die. Quite frequently. So it's not worth it to be human much at this point, but when I do get invaded, say after kindling a bonfire in a new area, it's kind of fun (usually I die before I ever get invaded anyways!). I've been trained at this point to know that I'm going to lose souls and humanity easily. What's one more way that that happens into the mix?! It's a different experience and it adds to the game I think.
I got the Fog Ring through the Forrest Covenant path. Two of my three wins for the ring were my own victories, one was done while I was running across the map to help, and then there were the 20 or so deaths. It's PVP. It's fun. I got my ass handed to me, but Dark Souls.
There is also 10 minute timer after you are invaded before you get invaded again. I don't much like pvp either but I too have never been invaded much. Generally all you need to do is make sure to have a quick path planned out to the boss. The vast majority of bosses in the game can be reached with only fighting a couple of enemies and probably in a few minutes or less each.
If you are invaded, just had back to your bonfire so your souls are easy to collect if that's what you're worried about. Losing the humanity is a bummer, but you can farm it if you need to, and it won't take that much time to get a decent amount. I too don't really enjoy the pvp but it's never really a problem. The only additional thing you lose is the 1 humanity. It's not like it's any better or worse than any other death just because it's another player killing you.
I'd be interested in seeing an unedited video of all of your O&S attempts, including your attempts to summon help. I bet those PvP deaths are nowhere near as certain or as instant as you say they are.
Also, you're halfway through the game. You're what, level fifty or sixty or so? You have access to every smith, every upgrade path except the worst one, and almost every popular piece of equipment. You are not getting "ganked."
Why's that? To see how much I get invaded or to enjoy the comedy of the newb-attempting-O&S extravaganza?
In either case if you're serious I'll look into FRAPS and see how bad it hurts my frame rate.
Also it won't be totally unedited. Like any good game footage there will be mandatory J-Pop or Electronica or indie Metal used unironically as background music, probably on loop.
By my definition getting ganked involves getting killed by a grossly more powerful player in a non- or semi-consensual setting. Skill is supposed to be the deciding factor in Dark Souls PvP, and I don't have any of that at this point. Which would be fine if I cared to learn, but for the moment I just want to enjoy the game and not get caught up in the PvP claptrap.
I can tell I'm hitting a nerve here and I don't want to be a jackass (just blowing off steam), so that's the last negative thing I'll say about PvP in this thread.
As a test to see how much you get invaded. And I am serious! I'm not calling you a liar, it's just that human beings are notorious for confirmation bias so it might be eye-opening for you as well. If nothing else, there's the ten minute cooldown that
Thursday mentioned above, so at the very least you could only get instantly invaded and killed every other time you turned human to summon help.
I agree with your definition of ganking but I don't agree with extending it to account for player skill; if you do that, doesn't any loss qualify as a gank? To me, it's about invading and killing someone who has no reasonable ability to fend off the invader as they present themselves via gear and spells. So invading someone at level 30 in The Depths with endgame gear might qualify as ganking. Invading a brand-new level 10 in Undead Burg could also qualify, since they don't have even basic skills yet. But to me as long as you're not hacking it's fair game to invade a player who's had time to acclimate to the game a little bit as long as you're using gear and spells at a power level that they could reasonably be expected to match, which in your case is endgame-caliber gear or close to it and mid-game but still very powerful spells.
It's possible I'm reading too much into the word, though. To me it implies some a-hole getting his jollies by picking on those weaker than him, which is a phenomenon that does exist in Dark Souls but not one that I think applies in your situation.
Not at all! I'm happy to discuss PvP with you, I'd just rather confine it to its own thread (or perhaps the Dark Souls Two thread, with a view towards how it can be improved in the next one). I'm mainly concerned that some new player who is here looking for advice (which is what this thread is ostensibly for, all the countless tangents we've gone on notwithstanding) will skim through and read a post like yours and think "oh man, guess I'd better just never turn human or attempt to play the multiplayer at all."
I thought his comments this time were pretty reasonable and appropriate for the thread. And despite disagreeing with it on a lot of levels I think enough people seem to enjoy it that way that it's fair to say it's a perspective that you can disagree with but shouldn't shut out as inherently invalid. This is a revision of my earlier opinion on the topic, of course, and it is contingent on the certainty and vehemence (and amount of ignorance about important game mechanics) with which the opposition to PvP is expressed as well as the amount of exaggeration about its unfairness that is included.
It depends. For instance, on a new character you can typically get 2 soft humanity in short order by just clearing to the Taurus demon tower 1-2 times. It's mainly something worth knowing if you're planning on farming an area extensively before moving on...do it before you kill the boss for a little extra. It can either be a fast loop with a few humanoids (like the slimes) or a slower loop with more humanoids, but since it's connected primarily to the quality and quantity of humanoids the slime one is going to feel inefficient even if it's kind of a bargain for how easy it is. I mean, for a low level pyro you can usually clear the hallway in 30 sec-1m, tops, and I just don't do the rat farming part any more at all because soft humanity carries me until I get to the really good humanity farming area in the DLC.
If you haven't beaten O&S, you don't have access to the last tier of upgrades. Those can add significant damage and defense. Also, expecting players to farm up and max out their equipment as soon as it's possible to do so is a little much.
You're right about new players, but I just want to underline that as an experienced player you can get to the top tier of upgrades before O&S with marginal effort, since the hardest part is knowing where everything is. You can get the very large ember at the start of the game, technically, if you're willing to kill the New Londo vendor and you can get the Large Fire Ember as soon as you beat Ceaseless (and I usually do, because I go there with my trusty fog ring so it's a quick yog and homeward bone). Lightning is a bit trickier although also technically doable before O&S.
That's not true, is it? What are you missing besides the crappy Large Magic Ember?
I don't know, is it? I think wanting to upgrade stuff as soon as possible is a pretty natural impulse. It's certainly the best strategy for getting through the game single-player, anyway.
I don't think it's unreasonable, I just think it's relatively unlikely to be a normal thing people do on a first playthrough unless they are treating it like a very grindy experience. The two big hurdles are going to be materials and embers, and those are non-trivial obstacles in terms of getting 4 pieces of gear to +9 or twinkling +5 as well as doing all of the ascensions at optimal times for weapons. Most people are going to be able to keep up with their primary weapon, for the most part, and their shield, and one twinkling item if they get the lizards.
I forgot you could technically get the Very Large Ember without the Lord Vessel, but it's not something a new player is going to do unless they've read a guide and decide to go out of their way to get it.
You don't need to grind to beat the game (I'd argue that grinding too much breaks the difficulty curve, but maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing for a new player since the game is difficult enough), and some people just don't find it fun (me, for example). You think that means they have no right to complain that they're getting destroyed in PvP, and I'm a little more sympathetic. And that's fine - the game is what it is.
Sure, but max-level fire and lightning upgrades are much more reasonable.
O&S down. I tried it offline with Solaire to see how hard it was and found it pretty easy as long as my shiny gold meat shield distracted one. Took 4 tries, but I'm not counting one of them because it was an insta-kill from lightning ass the instant a cutscene ended. I didn't record anything since I didn't bother going online. Sorry extarbags!
Yeah, one tip not shared often enough is MAKE SURE YOU KILL THE FIRST ONE TO THE SIDE OF THE ROOM. Otherwise you might get destroyed before you can even figure out where the big fucker is.
Congratulations. The game really opens up now, and while some of my least favorite levels are ahead of you, I think you'll really get a lot out of how much more of the game is in your control at this point. And if you ever start with another character, you will be shocked by how quickly you get here.
Actually, Sif is one of those bosses that *really* rewards knowing how to dodge through an attack, and going in with < 25. He hits like a truck until you have 70+ stability and the endurance to withstand the hits, and even if you can, the double swipe is still likely to fuck up your shit.
The big trick to get underneath him and then fuck up his shit until he jumps away.
Oh and here's my man right now and what I have equipped 90% of the time (though the Pyro glove is often the Great Scythe instead).
Recommend not putting any more points in dex, and dump them in strength instead, if you want your stat based weapons to keep scaling up well.
Doesn't seem like he's even using any strength weapons. I'd cut both scaling stats at this point.
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