Tell Me How To Get Started

Well, it's not uncommon to start several times, but you also gain a lot if you just muddle through because as you progress you realize where the hard limits to progress are in the game and those earlier investments in gear that seemed so monumental are a much smaller issue. Regardless, this is more "stuff to have in mind" than anything I am saying is better or worse; If nothing else, relying on the heater shield means you have a slightly larger parry window which probably means you are getting much better at that valuable skill.

So here's what I like about the Dragon Crest shield: There are two big limiting factors early on to shield progress. One is access to the large ember, which you are on the verge of getting but you can see is quite a ways off from the beginning. Two, and more importantly, is the relative scarcity of large titanite shards. Since they are crucial for upgrading armor especially let alone your weapons, the fact that you don't hit a farmeable location for them until the PITA slimes in the Depths or the Slightly Less PITA leeches (at least they are more generous) in Blight Town, I really value a shortcut to reasonable stability that is along an entirely different resource track that I generally don't really need until later in the game.Either way, at +3/4 that early in the game, the Dragon Crest is a nice, light shield that not coincidentally neutralizes the many fire-based opponents you face in the early going.

The key there is that I know exactly how to get 8 twinkling titanite relatively early: I get two from the crystal lizard that's in the Taurus demon's tower, and another two from the one in Darkroot basin immediately after I get to the blacksmith. These will both be available until you get them, and you can simply let them run away, position yourself, and quit/reload to get another crack at them. The other four come from killing a couple of the tree guys on the way to the basin with enough soft humanity on me (or at least 2-3 to make it worthwhile, since that's the biggest increment in drop quality) to get one of each of the bleed, poison, and toxin herbs. These I take back with me to the undead asylum to trade with Snuggly, which I usually do early so I can get the rusted iron ring and more importantly the Crest Shield and get that up to +3, as having a high magic resist shield means I am on my way to do an early run at [magic dispensing enemies not germane to discussion at hand]. But I digress.

Twinkling titanite was originally designed to be capped per playthrough, or at least very rare depending on how the drops from the only monsters that drop it were going to be. But now that the giant blacksmith sells them, you can feel comfortable using it to get an early edge; if you're really industrious around Blight Town, you can go to the Great Hollow and kill the ten lizards there for a guaranteed 20 twinkling and diverse other rewards (I've gotten up to 3 titanite slabs, for instance).

tl;dr- the effort you've put into the heater shield means it's pretty damned competitive. I like my way because it lets me pump up armor and my weapons of choice instead of a shield until I get to the mid-game shields that I really like, and both crest shields remain really competitive throughout NG+s just because they are so light and so capable in their respective spheres.

If you are going to go the turtle route with Capra, keep in mind that the second dog does not aggro if you stay near the entrance to that room.

I don't know that I'm going to go full turtle. My idea was kill dog one, then dog two, then focus on him. I'm not controlled enough in my movements to definitely avoid aggroing the second dog so I'd rather do it on-purpose rather than have the little shit come at me from behind. That being said, I was (pleasantly) surprised at how little stamina I lost when blocking his hits!

Depending on play style I'd say the Heater is pretty damn competitive all through, it's the only shield with 100% protection with a Fast rating IIRC. So, faster recovery and a slightly larger window for Parrying than any other Medium Shield. Not saying either of you is wrong, just that the Heater, along with most of the starter gear are pretty damn good all the way through.

Have you tried heading for the stairs? If you can get up them you can usually separate the dogs from the demon for at least a few seconds.

When I survive more than fifteen seconds I will start working on maneuvering. The last encounter had me block a few attacks, try to get a quick shot in on the dog, get stunned, take a ton of damage, and die. :)

Well, it's up to you. In my experience, killing the dogs is the best way of surviving, and killing the dogs is much easier if you can separate them from the Capra. Trying to go toe-to-toe with both dogs and the capra seems like it would be very difficult. Good luck!

Yeah, Capra can be easier if you charge up the stairs to the left and then jog over onto the ledge to the right. It seems to help with separating him from the dogs, which is the real key to surviving--once they're gone, he's relatively straightforward.

I hate Capra Demon, too. Any summons available for you?

Maneuvering is how you stay alive longer than fifteen seconds. Try this: enter the room, immediately run to the right side and jump past the Capra himself, then cut straight across the room and go about halfway up the stairs. Turn around and lock on to one of the dogs, block them, and you should have time to kill them before Capra catches up. From there it's not that hard; you can lure the Capra out onto the ledge and drop on him after he falls or you can just fight him like any other tough enemy.

I'll try that extarbags. Probably tomorrow; I got tired of Capra and decided to farm up some souls so I could upgrade my gargoyle halberd and play with it some. One requirement I currently have in a weapon is one-shotting most of the burg; I find that the sooner stuff dies the less likely I am to get myself killed. :) I plan on having a few drinks after dinner tonight and playing Dead Island, which I think is more amenable to drunken gaming. :)

There are times in this game where I wish I was using a guide more extensively. I sometimes look up something here and there just to fill in the gaps where something is just unclear, but then there are times when the obtuseness of the game just fucks you over. I rang the second bell and returned to firelink. The dude there is talking about some some new problem and the stench and we should take care of it. So I go over to where the entrance to the graveyard is and there's this mean-ass looking dude sticking his head out of the floor. Oh, I guess I should take care of it, RIGHT? THAT'S WHAT THE GAME JUST FUCKING TOLD ME.

So I attack it, it tells me I'm not the chosen one, then it disappears down its hole.

I look on a guide and it's a major character who buys items from you. I've been waiting for that the whole fucking game. God damnit, Dark Souls.

I'm sure you guys are all sick of hearing newbie stories, but: I just started this today, picked Pyromancer and Master Key on LK's advice two posts in, and proceeded to bash my head against the first demon for a like an hour. "What the hell? Drop down and stab? OK... Well, now I'm dead. How do I even use magic? Oh, I get it, I have to equip the thing and then... OK, fireballs! Now we're talking! Oh, no, wait, I'm dead again. What the fuck? Why are all the monsters back? Goddamnit, OK, hack this guy, block arrow, hack hack hack, get to demon... GODFUCKINGDAMMIT!"

But then I suddenly clicked. Take it slow. Take each enemy. Drop down and roll the fuck out of his way. Take off armor, you'll be faster. Hooray!

So now I'm there, and I'm starting to see why people dig this game. My question: Stick with Pyromancer, or is it worth it to try out different builds at this point seeing as I've literally just started?

If it's any comfort - he only "pays" 50 souls per item. Seriously, you can just throw them away or buy the Bottomless Box and put them there forever. (This was obviously in response to Jibble.)

madkevin: There's really no such thing as "stick to Pyromancy" in Dark Souls. There are no classes. You can shape your character however you want and equip him differently for every situation. Pretty much everything is viable.

I've been keeping them in the box. Wish someone had told me it was only 50 souls per. Eesh.

Did you not see the giant opening the gate? That's where next is! Poor Frampt, you're clearly a Kaathe man.

Have you gone to Oswald and tried to by absolution? Dunno if that will work on Frampt, or what you actually did to him, but the cost of absolution will be worth more than the souls you'd turn in.

Feeding item to Frampt is mostly to clean up the bottomless box, IMO. There are few items that are for more than 50, some are 1,000, but they're usually worth keeping around.

madkevin The progression for most people is to start with one type of character, accumulate sub-optimal decisions that nevertheless work out in interesting ways, and then start with the altoholicking (also sounded better in my head). And then sometimes you come around full circle and realize your original character wasn't that bad and go back to him. In any case, the only reason I would ever tell someone to restart right off the bat used to be if they didn't have the master key, and now you can even buy that so it's not a big deal although still strongly recommended.

The main thing I like about Frampt is breaking up chunks and slabs, especially for relatively worthless upgrade items like blue titanite. But it's really not very important, and at least you know you can't fuck up access to the Darkwraith covenant. Absolution does not work on Frampt, but he'll be back in NG+. It won't matter then because you'll be awash in souls from even basic enemies, but I guess it's the thought that counts.

I just drop most things and sort my items in the inventory list periodically to ensure that my most used stuff is at the very top and bottom of my list. I'm going to keep mentioning this since it's not obvious, and it does make juggling your crap a lot less frustrating.

So I should relax and let the game rough me up some more, is what you're saying? Gotta say, after what might have been the most unpleasant hour with a game I've spent since the PS1, now that I've cracked just a little bit of Dark Souls it's definitely intrigued me.

Pretty much. Don't pick any fights with blacksmiths (by hitting them when you oh I don't know put down your controller to take a leak) and it's pretty much putting together how the mechanics work in the big picture as well as just pure exploration from here.
I spend that unpleasant hour frequently when I try to figure out different things different ways in the game. It's only bad if you don't give yourself room to say "what could I be doing differently rather than simply doing the same thing better" when something seems insurmountable. You already cracked weight levels, and that right there is up there with figuring out how to combine your preferred weapons' movesets for best effect.

Oh god I beat an Iron Golem and I've been toted away to some gleaming city of fresh horrors. I think I'm going to try and get back, maybe level up a little more before I die a hundred thousand more annoying deaths.

Personally I hated the time I spent with the Pyromancer. That armor and shield were too flimsy, the fireball range too short, the axe didn't suit my style. I kept dying because my shield wouldn't block attacks 100% and enemies quite often got a hit in while I was casting fireball. Also, I found only 8 spells not enough.

What I did was do the asylum a few times with different classes to see how different armor, weapons and spells worked. I got two characters up to the first boss after that, and have now settled on a third that suits my play style. I don't feel I've wasted time on that since Dark Souls has a steep learning curve, and I've learned a lot from that.

Good characters to try out are the Knight (high health, but very heavy armor and thus very slow), the Sorcerer (play around with the Soul Arrow spell which has a larger range then the Fire Ball and 30 uses), the Hunter (gets a bow early on which is great for pulling from far distances). I really liked the Wanderer which has a nice combination of speed and damage, without being too flimsy.
That way you can try out different weapons and different styles without wasting any attribute points.

The only reason I recommend the pyromancer is that the things you don't like about it can all be replaced very quickly after (or sometimes even before) finishing the tutorial level, but the other classes don't get access to pyromancy for quite some time.

That is true, but it all cost souls and stat points, and you need to know where to find some of these items as well. For example the Soul Arrow is easy to get, but not when you don't know where to find the merchant.
The pyromancer is a great character to start out with though and can be moulded into pretty much anything you want eventually, I won't disagree with that. All I meant was that it might be a good idea to look t the other classes as well. If anything it might help new players decide where to take their pyromancer, what to focus on first.

Edit: another thing to keep in mind is that I'm still a newbie myself, whereas Extarbags is a grizzled veteran. So take my advice with a grain of salt, it doesn't matter in the end whether you've misspent a few stat points or souls, or chose a different starting class.

I'm liking the Pyromancer OK, but I hardly use the fireball. The range is ridiculously short if you're using lock on aiming; and hitting stuff without lock on is kind of tough.

Yeah, pyromancy is only ever good at close and medium range. Sorcery and miracles are what you need if you want to blast stuff with magic from a distance.

I do find it's occasionally helpful if I've got a horde of wussy guys and there's some element of the terrain that keeps them from mobbing me; e.g., a long hallway after the guys in the front are recovering from a swing.

As far as a wussy shield goes; a few points into STR and END let me use the Heater Shield, which I am loving. I may try farming up enough twinkling twilight (I've got a couple and apparently a few more are available from some raven in the asylum) to upgrade the Dragon Crest Shield as well; it'll have higher stability than the +5 Heater at that point...

How is archery compared to magic for ranged damage? I feel like I'm spreading myself very thin by trying to stick points in Intelligence and Attunement for my magic, vitality and endurance for my survivability and dexterity and strength for meeting my weapon requirements.

Would it be easier to go with a pyromancer for magic damage against those pesky dudes that always block everything, and then simply concentrate on Endurance, Vitality and Dexterity while using a bow and a dexterity weapon? This would be a lot easier now I know where to find some weapons and armor, and I know that getting arrows isn't a problem.

It doesn't really play the same role. Sorcery does a hellacious amount of damage, and can easily be the focus of your entire build. Bows and crossbows are more useful for pulling, thinning a crowd of weaker enemies, or attacking from complete safety.

Well if you're worried about spreading your points too thin, then yes, pyromancy is a great option. It does awesome damage and requires no stat investment. As for using a bow and dexterity weapon, remember that crossbows and elemental weapons are also fine options so you don't have to put a lot of points into dex either.

Regarding my continuing shield adventures: I just picked up a tower kite shield. Barely fits within my current weight limit, but it has +3 stability over the Heater and is identical in every way (though I don't know about the parry timing...)

Tower Kite is an awesome shield for the weight.

Hmm... I might try that out then. I'm so low on Endurance and Vitality at the moment (12 vit, 14 or 16 end) because I stuck my points in everything else, I'm in my mid-twenties. I do think it would help my survivability if I had more points into both, especially when entering new areas.
I've got nothing to lose by trying, and my current character is still there if I do prefer her play style. Besides that, I like making new characters. Back to the asylum I go!

Edit: So when I upgrade a weapon to fire damage or lightning damage it doesn't calculate stats in at all, is that right? So stats like Strength and Dexterity are only useful in the beginning when you don't have access to those upgrades, after that you'll only need enough to meet weapon and shield requirements? (oh boy, am I slow with this!)

The way to go then is to just get enough Strength and Dexterity for your chosen weapons and shield and just struggle on until you can upgrade them to elemental weapons. (I'm feeling so dense now)
Only spells need high stats for damage scaling I suppose, and to get the higher level spells.

It's interesting to see how our relative newb builds evolve. I'm level 26 and currently I've got End in the mid 20s; str and dex in the mid teens; everything else at 10. The high end plus a shield with stability in the low to mid sixties lets me blockblockblock all day long.... when I remember to! I still have issues blocking against bosses; I just assume the weapon that is three times as long as I am tall cannot be stopped by a measly shield... but it can!

Well, yes. And no. Elemental upgrades remove the damage bonus derived from stats and exchange it with Fire or Lightning. This can be good. This can also be kinda meh. It all depends. F'rinstance; my Dex-focused Archer has one +14 weapon that at dex 30 does 350 damage per strike. I also have a similar weapon that is at Lightning +3 which does 400 damage. Normally you'd say that the latter one wins, all other things being equal. But here's the thing, the Lightning weapon does 200 physical damage and 200 lightning damage, while the +14 weapon does 350 physical damage. If an enemy has protection that stops 100 physical and 100 lightning, the Lightning weapon delivers 200 damage to that target while the +14 weapon delivers 250. Let's say I raise my Dex to 40, I'd then probably do more than 400 physical damage and deliver 300 damage to the target.

That sounds great :D I can block about 3 attacks and then I'm out of endurance, it goes even faster when attacking while blocking with the Estoc as well. On the other hand I don't really have to go in range with the tougher enemies if I can avoid it; I can take the red cloaked undead out with one cast of a spell before they even spot me.
It's small areas and ambushes that keep killing me, dealing with more then one enemy at a time is tough as well. I guess that's why I've been reluctant to leave familiar areas: I know what to expect and can deal with it accordingly.

aha! So stats do matter! But lightning weapons would probably be handy for people who have a mixed build, or a build more focussed on Faith or Intelligence.

@Hammet covered the mechanics of this very well. Ultimately normal weapons with good scaling are more powerful than elemental ones, but elemental weapons free up all those points for vit and end, which is why I think they're ideal for most newer players. Also, not all upgrade paths are appropriate for all weapons. The Estoc, for instance, has only mediocre scaling, but in elemental former it's fantastic.

Yes, well. There are also weapons that scale with Int or Faith. If you turn any weapon into Magic it will scale with Int, same goes for Divine and Faith. Some will be more suited for this than others. But yes, Magic and Divine enchantments aren't fantastic and I'd say that generally you'll be better off with Fire or Lightning.

It's definitely an easy way to play; if I turtle up behind the shield and I'm not stupid about leaving enemies behind me I can handle most engagements. On the other hand, I've got almost no ability to do serious damage at range! Tradeoffs.

Alright, time to take a few more shots at Capra. I think something that frustrates me about this boss is that it's a bit of a hike from the nearest fire. Taurus Demon was like that as well. And I guess so were the Gargoyles so I don't know why it feels worse with Capra.

BAM! First shot of the day. Thanks so much for the advice extarbags, I did exactly what you suggested and it worked. Also I think switching to my Gargoyle Halberd helpd a lot; I actually killed both dogs with one attack. :D

After that he was trivial, he moves so slowly that getting away from him is easy.

Ì'm also thinking Estoc isn't helping. While it is nice to be able to attack from behind a shield, it simply eats stamina. Using a different weapon like a sword means I have to drop my shield, but once I get the hang of an enemy's attack pattern that isn't so bad, and it takes less stamina that way. Which would leave the way open for curved swords or katanas. Or Strength weapons. Hmm...