Discussion in 'Technologics' started by Cormac, Feb 23, 2012.
Oh, that is a great tip! Thanks!
Damn. My Canon died recently and if I'd known this a couple of days ago I would have bought another Rebel (which would have been my third since 1998) and kept my old lens. Instead I just bought a less-expensive Sony A57 to replace it. Oh well. Here's to hoping I enjoy the Sony as much as I've always liked my Canons.
I'm thinking about getting a DSLR camera. I'm a total noob and my only exposure to photography has been digital point and shoots and cell phone cameras. I've been thinking about Canon Rebels for a long time but never pulled the trigger. I have seen the Canon T4i and was thinking about that but the STM lens kit is about 85,000 yen. I see that the local electronics shop has the T3i with 18-55mm lens kit for only about 47,000 yen which is a huge discount compared to the latest model. As someone who is a complete noob and probably wouldn't miss the features in the latest version (I have no interest whatsoever in touch screens) would it make sense to go for the cheaper albeit older generation?
Also are there any video guides that I can use to brush up on my photo knowledge? On Youtube perhaps? For example, I didn't know anything about full frame and semi cropped and f1.8 and all the other techincal terms that have been thrown around in here.
Yes on the T3i, it's a much better value camera. They made some changes to the image sensor for the T4i that has made it much noisier.
I've not used either body, but from what I've read the T4i is an improvement worthy of the price increase. However, the STM lens that comes with the T4i kit you are looking at is a very different lens than then 18-55mm with the T3i. The 18-55 is a serviceable, if somewhat unimpressive zoom lens, where the STM is a much smaller, fixed 40mm focal length lens, with an auto focus motor (generally) designed for video use.
DigitalRev review of the 650D/T4i:
and the 40/2.8 STM:
If you are a complete noob I would recommend getting a kit with at least a 18-105mm lens, maybe even a 18-200mm. This will give you a much wider range of photos and will help your learning immensely.
Youtube is a wealth of knowledge, you'll find many good tutorials there. In addition I always recommend Scott Kelbys Digital Photography book series which is an excellent place to start.
God that was a funny review. I can't believe that guy started planking at the Canon conference! I didn't realize he was from Hong Kong with that accent. I guess knowing the history of Hong Kong, what other accent would they have but even still that caught me off guard.
I don't know about anywhere else but in Japan the camera comes with an 18-135mm STM lens.
I have the option of getting a T3i with the double lens kit for about $615 with those two lenses I could pick up the f1.8 50mm lens for about 10,000 yen and that would tide me over for quite a while.
As usual, whenever I get a hankering for something I end up completely getting the cart before the horse. Just ordered this camera bag off of Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/National-Geog...rds=national geographic ng a2540 midi satchel
I'm hoping it's a decent size, although looking at reviews people say that it holds a dslr plus a couple of lenses which should be plenty for me. Bonus points because it doesn't scream "I'm a camera case!" and kind of has an Indiana Jones thing going for it. Now all I have to do is get an actual camera to go in it.
I didn't realize that Canon had made more STM lenses, but it makes sense that they would. STM lenses have stepping motors in them which behave differently than most AF motors, so that 40mm review might be worth watching anyway.
When I was in Okinawa we used to dig through the used equipment at Kitamura quite often. I remember finding Canon 50/1.8s for 5,000 yen or so, which is about the most I would ever pay for one. Sometimes they would have copies of the mk I version (same lens, but with a metal body) for around 10,000. Of course, that was back when it was over 100 yen to one USD. By the time I left it was around 78 and the deals were not looking quite as good.
The good news is that things are getting better! When I first got to Japan in 2005 it was 125 yen for $1 and dropped to as far as 74 or 75 yen per $1. Great for me when I buy things from the US. It's back up to 90 yen per dollar now so it might start getting cheaper to buy camera stuff.
I did check out that review (that guy is too funny not to) and I may get that lens someday as well as it is also a perfectly reasonable price. I also like the idea of a nice small pancake lens. I assume that if I were to get the T3i I wouldn't be able to take advantage of the STM functionality?
That is good news. I've been waiting to see if the prices on the Fuji GW690III or the X-Pan would improve.
The main advantage of STM is smooth, quiet AF for video, so you need a camera that is capable of continuous auto focus in video mode to take advantage of the STM. The T3i only allows for manual focus while recording video, though Canon may be able to change that with firmware updates. The auto focus should be fine with stills.
Any advice on this one? I was going to buy a dSLR (my first) and I had settled on the Canon T3i because it was fairly cheap and came with a couple of lenses. But now I'm wondering if I should get the T4i instead. Here's my situation:
Canon T3i with double lens kit costs 55,400 yen (approx $625 US)
Canon T4i with EF-S18-135mm IS STM lens will cost aprox 85,500 yen but I would get back around 12,000 yen of loyalty points on my point card effectively making it 72,000 yen or $815 US.
So there's a difference of almost $200 between the cameras and this is what I think I would get if I went with the T4i over T3i (please let me know if I miss anything).
*T4i body is made in Japan whereas the T3i is made in Taiwan
*T4i auto focuses in movie mode whereas the T3i doesn't
*T4i has a touch screen. At first I thought this wasn't a big deal but when I tried it out in the store I found it to be super intuitive and helpful
*T4i has movie mode on the ON/OFF switch which is slightly more handy than T3i
*T4i has 9 point cross type AF (I have no idea what this means)
*T4i is compatible with UHS-1 cards (not sure if I need to take advantage of this
Well that's all the differences I can think of. If anyone else can fill me in on anything more I would appreciate it. I've seen different websites say that picture quality is no different between the two cameras. The real difference seems to be with the lenses. As someone new to SLRs and hence no lenses at all, is it worth giving up an 18-55mm IS lens and a 55-250mm IS lens for a single 18-135mm IS STM lens? Would I be better off with two different lenses rather than a single lens? I kind of like the idea of being able to take videos with the camera as my wife is pregnant with our first child (the reason for my buying the camera). In that case, an auto focusing body with an STM seems like a good idea. On the other hand, more likely than not if we want to catch a video quickly we'd probably just use an iPhone. If the two lenses in the T3i double lens kit are far superior to a single 18-135mm lens (for picture purposes) then I would be willing to forgo the STM lens. Alternatively, if someone thinks that another camera (Nikon D3200 or something) would suit my purposes better then let me know. I like the idea of getting a Canon (especially for that cheap f/1.8 50mm lens) but it's not something I'm hung up on.
I know a lot of people suggest to get something cheap for their first camera and then upgrade. On the other hand the T3i at $600 isn't exactly cheap and to be honest I don't plan on becoming a pro so if the camera suits me know then I'll keep it for many many years. In that case it might be a good idea not to get something overly cheap. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
I'll cross post this on QT3 as well, sorry.
Anyone thinking about full-frame cameras should pause to take a look at the new Speed Booster by Metabones. It is not a camera. It is an adapter for the Sony NEX line of mirrorless cameras (and eventually for m4/3 cameras), which basically converts a NEX into the equivalent of a full-frame camera. Of course, it would still use an electronic viewfinder instead of optical. But otherwise, the tiny and cheap NEX gets the considerable advantage in light-collection that previously required lugging around an expensive and heavy full frame body.
It seems like black magic, but the principle is simple: full frame lenses gather a lot of light and distribute it over a large area, this adapter takes the same light and concentrates it into a smaller area. This eliminates the crop factor, so for example a 50mm f/1.8 becomes a normal lens rather than a short tele. In other words, a NEX+adapter+50 mm f/1.8 lens does the same as a NEX + 35mm f/1.2 lens. Pretty remarkable. The adapter is expensive, but still way cheaper than a FF camera.
Interesting, but if I'm reading this document corrrectly the adapter for the Sony NEX series does not actually accept Sony objectives at this point, only Canon and Nikon. Something to keep in mind if you do want to use it with a Sony NEX. :)
Right, the only way something like this could work is by taking advantage of lenses designed for full frame cameras, not NEX lenses. But if you're willing to give up autofocus, pretty decent full-frame lenses are relatively cheap.
I can't comment on the STM lens 'cause I haven't used it, but my experience with the touch screen is similar to yours. I'd say go for the T4.
The T4i is probably a little better for video if you don't want to manual focus. Cross type points look a bit like this +, and the vertical type looks more like |. Basically, cross type points are sensitive in a second dimension, which can make for faster, more accurate auto focusing.
All three of the lenses you are looking at should serve you well, but the 18-135mm seems to be getting the most praise. Since it sounds like you prefer the T4i controls, I would stick with that body.
This thing is a cool way to get around the crop factor of the smaller sensors, but I'm not entirely sold on it. I don't like using SLR lenses on small cameras like the NEX, but a version that took Leica M lenses would be tempting. Also, some of their claims seem to be a bit misleading.
If you can afford Leica M lenses, you probably don't have to worry about little things like converters or crop-factor cameras. Or sending your butler out for Beluga caviar, or shining the diamond-inlaid fender on your Rolls-Royce...
My Leica came with a Maybach, and I don't care for caviar so I had the butler feed it to the hounds.
The M mount comment refers to my dislike of using such large SLR lenses on small cameras. The used market, along with the Zeiss and Voigtlander M lenses could make this interesting to me should they ever be supported.
This adapter looks basically like a reversed teleconverter. This will likely result in a small increase in center sharpness with some lenses but decreased overall sharpness, increased aberrations, and quite a bit of vignetting. Given that a NEX-7 plus the $500 or so this adapter the cost will be close to the price of a D600 or 6D, I'm not sure there is much reson to recommend it.
Video users will likely find some advantages, as well as people who prefer smaller cameras or can't afford FF and don't want to deal with crop factors while using their collection of lens for 35mm cameras.
Ok, but you don't need a NEX-7 to use it. A lot of people prefer the NEX-5N, and even with the adapter it costs about half the price of a full-frame camera.
True, but then you would be getting close to a used 5D mk II in price. I think a lot of people will find this adapter useful, but it has some significant disadvantages that will offset price differences.
I picked up the Canon Rebel T4i (otherwise known in Japan as the Kiss x6i wtf) and I'm really enjoying it so far. I got the version with the EF-S 18-135mm STM lens and I grabbed an EF 50mm 1.8 off of Amazon. I really like the 50mm but damn with a crop camera it was not made for indoors or tight spaces! Japanese houses are especially bad. I thought I was going to be satisfied with just a couple of lenses but I feel like I've caught the lens buying bug. I've discovered since buying my camera that Canon EF lenses will fit on both a full frame and APS-C (have I got that acronym right?) camera but the EF-S lenses will not fit on a full frame camera. I have no idea whether I'll ever upgrade to a full frame body but I like the idea of knowing that if I do I'll be able to use all of my purchased lenses. Is there any advantage to buying EFS over EF lenses?
Usually price and also simply dealing with the crop factor if you want wide angle lenses. Like 24mm is nice on a full frame body but you'd need 15mm on a crop camera to get the same view and there's no such full frame lens (Canon makes 15mm but that's a fisheye).
I know nothing about cameras. My wife has been talking about getting a DSLR ever since I've known her, but they're always too expensive and she can always think of a better way to use the money. She loved her Canon Powershot and would take all sorts of photos, but two things happened about two years ago. First she lost an external hard drive that was full of scads of her photos, and second, she submitted piles of photos to a stock photo place and they all were rejected because the image quality wasn't good enough.
Since then her photo taking has gone way down, and she doesn't break out her "big" camera at all. She takes stuff with her phone, or borrows my stupid little Fujifilm Finepix point and shoot.
Her birthday is on May 28, and we got a good tax rebate and I've already told her to pick out a camera and get it. Then we talk about getting a new bed, or going on a trip, or getting the porch fixed, and I'm afraid that again this year she won't buy one.
So fuck that, I'm buying her one. I was all set to pull the trigger on a Canon T3i when I saw she had left a camera catalog open to the page with the Nikons. I'm thinking she was looking at the Nikon 5100. I know she'd get mad if I went for a $900 camera (the T4i), so I'm thinking around $600 will not incur her ire.
I've looked at reviews and the Canon seems better than the Nikon. Any opinions here?
Also, the one thing she insists on is that her camera have the tiltable LCD screen, which both of these have. So if you're going to suggest something else (and that's fine), it should have an LCD screen that folds out and twists and such.
Bahimiron who has done more research on buying cameras than anyone sane ever should.
I have a Nikon, but at that price point I'd probably go with the Canon. They are awesome off-the-shelf options for people looking to get into the DLSR hobby. I have a friend who has an old Rebel with the kit lens who works magic with it. In fact, she just won a $15,000 prize from a National Parks contest using her "old" stock hardware, beating out 16,000 other submissions.
Things I have found essential regardless of the camera you choose:
A Black Rapid strap (expensive, but it helps you want to take your big ol' camera places, and the only thing worse than no big ol' camera is a big ol' camera left in the bag at home. There are also lots of accessories available, which will ease gift-giving in the future (not that it's ever difficult to find presents for a camera nut.))
Everything else (more lenses, tripods, monopods, etc.) is optional depending on the type of shooting she ends up enjoying the most.
I mostly agree with Baker, but I'd give you the same advice someone once gave me. Do you have any friends willing to let you borrow their lens collection? If so, buy whatever brand they have.
(I have a few lenses which I'd be okay with you borrowing, but not any high end ones.)
The difference between Canon and Nikon is really just personal preference. If she wants the articulated screen the the D5100/D5200 is the one to go for with Nikon. With Canon and Nikon one will have an advantage in one area and the other in another area, so unless you have something very specific you need from the system it won't make a big difference. The one thing that does make a difference and what most would agree on is which feels physically better in your hands and which has a better layout of buttons under your thumb.
This is exactly what I did, but without realizing that the guy I was planning to borrow lenses from is the most anal person on the planet. Now I don't borrow from him out of fear I might leave a stray speck of dust on the filter. So I'd revise Bahimiron's advice to, "do you have any laid-back and groovy friends to whom money is no object willing to let you borrow their lens collection?"
I'll second the black rapid strap advice. Essential accessory if you ever want to have your camera with you on the go... If its in a bag its always a hassle to get out for a quick snapshot and the default strap is impractical when just walking about.
As to Nikon vs Canon, like the others have said, its a matter of taste and what feels better in her hands. Overall I think the Nikon interface has a few "newby" friendly intros & features that help guide you to the right settings you want to use. However Canon has more buttons on the back to quickly change the ISO setting or exposure on the fly. It all depends on how hands on this hobby will get. When I started this thread last year I ended up getting the Canon T3i with the 135mm lens and am still very happy with it. I think a "superzoom" lens (ie one with a long range) is very useful for a beginner, though later on a switch to seperate lenses might be worth looking at.
FWIW, here are the DXOMark sensor scores for the Canon T4i (aka 650D) and Nikon D5200.
I was leaning towards the Canon, because she's had two previous Canons, but those links show the Nikons are superior (and I even compared the 550D, aka T3i, to the D5100). Damn you for muddying the waters, Loyd!
It's what I do. ;-)
I've always been a voice in the wilderness for Nikon around here. But then, I've Ben a Nikon user for years, so I confess to a certain bias.
With DXOMark it usually helps to look at the graphs instead of the score. The differences between the sensors in these two cameras are small enough that there is unlikely to be much (if any) difference in regular use.
The T4i is not a $900 camera, it's a $749 camera.
I was looking to buy one either in Denver or online with delievery in Denver, but right now Canon seem to be phasing it out in favour of the T5i, so I can't find it on offer anywhere - actually the one camera store I looked at in Denver had both the T4i (in stock) and T5i (preorder) at exactly $749.
A colleague recently bought the T4i from B&H at about $650, so that annoys me.
I also looked at the D60 (I have a D20), but that seems in many ways behind the T4i/T5i and they have dropped the meatal body in favour of plastic, so that in between line (before the D5/D7) looks like it's not worth it right now.
The start of my trip (8.-10. of June) is my deadline - I need a new camera by then.
I'm a Nikon enthusiast myself, and have dropped way to much money into gear over the last couple of years. Still, Nikon and Canon are virtually indistinguishable from one another. There are minor differences, but nothing you will notice unless you are a pro.
I'd go for a kit with the best lens you can get. Lenses are much more important than body for getting the good shots. If you can afford it, go for a f2.8 lens or as close as you can get. Although on your budget that might be an issue.
This is a good deal from B&H on a Nikon D5100 with an OK starter lens.
More serious advice: go into a store and handle the cameras. See how the controls are laid out and how it feels in your hand.
For example, even though I generally like Nikon gear, I don't care for the D800. Great specs, but it just didn't feel comfortable. So I'm noe using thee somewhat less capable D600.
I've also never liked the general way Canon's controls are laid out, but that's something you can get used to over time.
I know this is a gift for your wife, but if you can contrive a way for her to actually handle the bodies, she might be happier with the choice in the long run.
In the case of the t4i there is a big difference. It has a lot of shadow noise which is something you really don't want. The previous versions of that sensor are about on par with the Nikons.
I'm don't have much personal experience with the current Rebel cameras, so you might be right. I was commenting on the DXOMark graphs, but a quick check of google doesn't suggest anything too bad regarding shadow noise. Though the Canon sensor does seem to underperform, I still expect that the differences won't show up much in daily use.
As always, the best advice is to pick the camera that is the most convenient to use. The small differences in technical specifications usually don't matter outside of special circumstances.
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