Discussion in 'January And Everything After' started by RyanMM, Jun 6, 2012.
It's because 'redistribution' is one word and the acronym should therefore be 'WRS', right?
I thought about that, but I didn't want to be disrespectful to the World Rolling Series. Rollerblading enthusiasts can fuck you up, yo.
On the other hand, I don't get super-feels giving a few bucks to the homeless guy wearing headphones and typing on his netbook, and wish I could discourage others after he packs them away and gets back "on the clock". It's kind of eye-opening what you see when you watch the same people all day every day.
San Francisco, you so crazy.
Left in lieu of tip.
I really wish I didn't have to punch you in the face now, but my fist has to do what my fist has to do.
Times when a 0.25% tax increase is so overburdening that patrons can't pay a 10-20% gratuity.
20%? WTF are you people doing over there?
I've seen 15-18% MANDATORY gratuity at some places (usually if you're with more than 6-8 people).
I'm not a huge fan of the gratuity system to begin with, but if I stiff on tips it sure as hell is not for a stupid reason like that.
I don't think they can actually make it mandatory, regardless of what the bill says. Depends on your laws I guess, but I'd be surprised.
EDIT: No apparently it is. Wow that's dumb.
They can and do. It's created problems for me in the past (on a government budget where tipping rules are very strict).
Also it's worth noting that for jobs like that (waiting, bartending), minimum wage does not apply (which is another reason I hate gratuity systems).
I don't know why that is, but funding something that seems so patently ridiculous, so that it can continue on its ridiculous way, doesn't strike me as a winning strategy.
My partner and I ate at a place called the Lenox Square Grill in Atlanta last weekend, and they have a mandatory 18% tip for EVERY table, regardless of party size.
I checked the Yelp reviews for the place (it sucked, BTW), and the manager says "(w)e have instituted this policy due to the large number of international travelers that frequent our restaurant."
I'm pretty sure that every time a restaurant has been challenged legal-like on the mandatory 18% tip they've lost.
I always tip 20% unless I've got a really good reason not to. I have also worked in a job where I earned $2 an hour and depended on tips. There is probably a relationship between those two things.
What would be ridiculous would be trying to change it by starting with screwing over the people who depend on tips.
Clearly the way to solve it is to tip the waiter in bitcoins.
I'm not being serious please don't hurt me oh god no not the irons not the burning out of the eyes AAAAAAAAAAAA
Ditto, except I never worked for tips. I just, y'know, have the money, so I'm not gonna be a dick about $10 on a $50 meal.
Hell, when I go to comedy shows I tip 50-100%, because it's not like my soft drink took any less time to bring over than a beer.
$10 on a $50 meal? Fuck that, I'd give them a fiver.
I'll take my turn at saying it.
We pay our servers a proper wage here, so what the fuck is this 'tipping' shit?
You really are your own worst enemy.
Eek! Another culture has a different tendency than my own!
Guys, anyone who has ever waited on a Euro in an American restaurant knows not to expect a tip.
You really don't have to brag about it.
I actually got tips in the restaurant I worked at all the time. It's just less of an obligation and more of a 'little extra' for being extra nice. I wasn't even all that good at my job.
If tips had to be built into servers' wages, then the price of the food would go up to compensate. The amount of money I spend on the meal is the same either way; the only people with standing to get bent out of shape about tipping are servers themselves who are occasionally confronted with tourists who don't know the score or asshole curmudgeons who stiff them for no good fucking reason.
It's a terrible, terrible system, but it won't go anywhere because that would mean raising restaurant prices 15-20% so that food establishments can pay their employees. However, that price increase would cause a huge blow to business, as you would at least lose people who tip less than that and probably a lot more. Restaurant owners don't particularly care if the occasional person tips shittily or not at all, as the sale is all the same to them. I have absolutely no evidence to back it up, but I think people react differently to 20% higher prices than to tipping 20%, even though the final outcome is about the same.
Without changing restaurant owner's attitudes, the tipping system will never change, and you'll never change those attitudes as long as we allow them to use servers as nearly free labor.
We don't. $2.13/hr is the general rate, outside of a few outlier places that do require proper minimum wage.
I've never seen mandatory gratuity challenged, but I think they're for suckers. People generally tip on the post-tax total, and that's what most servers base their calculations on. Mandatory gratuities are generally calculated on the pre-tax amount, so my mandatory 18% gratuity works out to 15-16% in most people's terms, which is the minimum that the vast majority of larger parties are going to tip anyway, and they'll generally tip more if it is left up to the host, whereas people seem to be much less willing to tip over a mandatory gratuity amount.
Cost transparency is a good thing.
The cost is transparent, unless you can't do simple arithmetic.
I'm sure there's studies to discuss how people process costs. We (as humans) are bad at it, and thus you get into idiocy like pricing everything as $*.99 instead of the saner cost. People mentally read the first bit, so $9.99 is $9, not $10. You would probably be less likely to shop somewhere if the price said $10 for a burger instead of $8 for a burger, even if you wind up paying $10 due to tips.
That said: yes, tips are fucking stupid. But the solution isn't to stiff waiters, it's to eat places that pay the waiters properly and don't expect tips. In the image's case though, it's just a rich asshole justifying being an asshole to himself while convincing everyone else that we should really fix this whole income inequality problem soon.
No, if people aren't paid enough the solution is to review your minimum wage laws.
Have you met the GOP? We keep trying to review our minimum wage laws. Like, every fucking year.
And were the GOP what people were complaining about in this thread I'd be sympathetic. It's like Stockholm syndrome in here. Oh, it's those mean customers, not tipping enough.
There's a whole science dedicated to questions like that. It's called behavioral economics. Really fascinating stuff.
We're saying that with the situation as is: not tipping is hurting someone because you feel like holding up some idiotic ideal. You'd be spending the same money if tipping was integrated, so fucking deal.
If anything, this is a closer situation to opposing raising the debt ceiling because you feel the budget should have been different. Way to hurt a bunch of people over a bizarre principled stance that changes nothing. Our current system requires tipping to pay waiters. So tip, and try to change the system. Don't just try to change the system and flip waiters the bird. The latter is terribly irresponsible and dickish behavior.
I hate tipping, I think it's the dumbest way to pay people ever. But the alternative currently (me not tipping) accomplishes absolutely nothing beyond making it harder for said waiter to pay their rent.
I investigated this phenomenon of "charm prices" a while back and it kind of turned out to be a dead end. Charm prices work --i.e., people see the difference between $6.99 and $7.00 as bigger than the difference between $7.00 and $7.01. But from what I read nobody really understands why. And the effect is generally weak. If anyone knows of such a model or study, I'd like to hear about it so I can check it out.
Where are these places? This is only half rhetorical as I've never heard of one and would very much go there if they exist in North America.
Agreed. This is entirely a catch 22 situation when it comes to trying to change it. Not tipping hurts the people that would likely benefit from the improved laws but tipping condones the status quo.
Uh, sure, if you were intending to flush that money down the toilet, otherwise there's better things you could do with it than pay that guy's rent. Tipping is dumb because it requires me to give a fuck, and when it comes to that I can think of more worthy causes where my money will make a bigger difference.
Um, the point is paying them a fair value for their services. Otherwise I should just steal the food because I can think of other things to actually use my money for. Or dine and dash, because I have better things to do with my money than pay for shit.
The argument against tipping is that it should be included in the price and the waiter paid. Which I totally get an agree with. The argument is not "they should get $2/hr and fuck right off"
If you're trying to take the "fuck paying waiters" angle.. okay. But for some reason I thought you were on the "we should pay waiters appropriately" side.
I'm on the "pay them whatever in line with laws, and if that's not enough recognise where the problem lies, don't go blaming me because I'm not supporting the dumb ass status quo".
This is why laws exist.
This should be their employers responsibility, not the customers.
I think we're all on the same page here with respect to making sure wait staff gets paid, nobody has taken the position of "fuck paying waiters" so drop the strawman.
The position I'm seeing from Quitch is "pay what the law requires and not a dime more", which is "Fuck paying waiters" in this case, because the law does not require waiters get a minimum wage.
What my position is would be that following the exact letter of the law does not absolve you of the moral issues inherent in that path. The law does not require I render aid to someone bleeding out in the street (in most states), but I still should, because there are moral issues with walking past them.
There are moral issues with not tipping and assuming the law will fix the problem. People are saying "the law should change, but until then we shouldn't fuck the waiters over". Quitch is saying fuck the waiters, the law should change first. That is what I take offense at, because it's abdicating any moral or social responsibility.
He also said:
He's clearly not taking the "fuck paying waiters" position. He's taking the "fuck tipping, pay waiters appropriately" position, as I do.
There are no moral issues inherent with tipping, it's only so because of the wage disparity imposed by the stupid law. Waiters are treated poorly by the law, to make up for this everyone is expected to subsidize their pay.
Separate names with a comma.