Discussion in 'January And Everything After' started by RyanMM, Jun 6, 2012.
Of course it makes sense! Woman something something baby. Duh.
Your nose is a little red. You’re like an Eskimo. Cool.
Does anyone still use the good ol' "I fucked your mother last night" neg, or is that one outdated?
That actually reminds me of a friend of mine, who, in his wilder days, had a very straightforward approach to one-night stands. He would approach an attractive woman in a bar or club, talk for a bit like two normal adults, and then ask her directly if she wanted to fuck. If she declined, he would thank her for the lovely conversation, and move on. Jim, at 350 pounds and highly charismatic, got laid at least 75% of the nights he went out, and eventually married one of the women whom he approached with "Hey, wanna fuck?"
Wow, that article is particularly terrible.
I really hope this person giving the sun a hand job is the author.
Every article is terrible. I keep hitting myself and have read multiple now.
ETA: Also worth noting that most articles have NSFW content, both in pictures and text.
Man. This paragraph makes me want to punch a dude.
Funny thing is, you can date 8s, 9s and 10s if you can "demonstrate social value". The implied subtext of that paragraph is that you, the man, are a 7 at best. And part of the reason you're not a 10 is doing shitty things like this.
Man, it's so weird, I thought my taxes were paying for schools, roads, city services, etc! What a wakeup call. THANKS OBAMA.
I am all in favor of sending this person pictures of ghetto families until they feel shame. If they do not feel shame, may the pictures flood into their house like Hogwarts letters, suffocating them.
Rule for living: If, in the Twilight Zone, your behavior would lead to an ironic, audience-pleasing demise, cut it out.
Edit: Let's come up with more Twilight Zone endings for these people!
Ending: Answers personals ad looking for handsome, confident male. Recruiter rates him a 10 on poise and attractiveness, then stuffs him and mounts him for an alien trophy room. Placard reads: HUMAN BUCK, PRIZE SPECIMEN.
Ending: Wakes up one day in the early twentieth century. Seeing time warp as miracle, tries to halt the course of modern medicine by sabotaging discovery of penicillin... by contaminating all of Jenner's petri plates with mold.
(I stole that from Jigsaw, but it's a totally legit Twilight Zone ending.)
The malefactor: Artist of godawful political cartoons filled with racist caricatures.
Ending: Turned into a caricature of himself, obviously... with a giant label reading HACK on his forehead.
He could just be put at the top of the donors list for the Iceland Phallological Museum.
I was in Reykjavik last January and wanted to go there but I couldn't find it.
To be fair, it was cold outside.
Not when you see the tax hike necessary to pay for it.
This part of the phallic museum is excellent. Behold, it's founder! His stance is like the icing on the....well, you fill in the rest:
PUAs are absolute shits. Former co-worker of mine:
"The hot ones at the bar can pick any guy they want. That's why you have to make them believe that you're the best one to pick. You know, trick them a little."
I tried to say that lying to a girl to have sex with you basically implies that you'd normally not be attractive to them, was just met with "whatever. It works, is all I'm saying."
Well, I'd have to go with your colleague on this one. Who cares? If they're saying yes then you've passed whatever their criteria were. Do you need to ask five times over five days so as to average out the responses and remove outliers to ensure you meet their "usual" standard?
People constantly manipulate other people, the PUAs just seem to be quite direct about what they're doing and attempting to train to get better at it.
If I go on a date I'd tart myself up. That's manipulation, I'm trying to look better than I normally do so as to impress. This is not evil at work. Negging strikes me as cruel and I understand the dislike for that, but the idea that "tricking" someone into consensual sex through manipulation is evil is just strange. From the second someone starts hitting on someone they're manipulating them, even if it's as gentle as trying to find areas of common interest, thus demonstrating to the other person what a good fit you are. When someone buys someone else a drink at a bar do you think it's because they're a selfless individual? They're buying your time and drugging you in a way which lowers your inhibitions, manipulating you so-to-speak.
So after reading the comments, I learned that women who think Negging is bullshit are all ugly ass fat women who can't get a man to save their life.
I must be Jabba the fucking Hutt then.
Outright lying, though? Sure, I'd dress up for dates and nights out in the city, but the whole "you've gotta trick them to make them like you" thing is just downright creepy, IMO.
MatthewF was talking with his colleague about negging. The dislike comes from taking advantage of insecurities, rather than being a decent fucking human being. The intent of the 'manipulation' matters in this case I think. Trying to find a common interest or trying to look your best for a date isn't the same as putting them down so that they'll sleep with you because of their low self esteem.
No, looking your best and engaging in conversation to find areas of mutual interest count is not "manipulation."
Of course it is, you're going out of your way to shape how someone thinks about you.
Agreed - PUA apologists will defend the practice of lying to pick up women as acceptable, finding false equivalence in the whole "But they wear makeup - that's not what they really look like! They wear push-up bras and heels - that's not what their body's shaped like! They're walking around deceiving people!"
No. Wrong. Nuh-uh. If you see a woman standing about 5'10" and you look down and see six-inch stilleto heels, you are not being deceived into thinking she's 5'10". You have all the information right there in front of you. If a gal's stuffing her bra to fill out her bustline for whatever reason, that's her prerogative. Same reason most of these PUA douchebags shop at Baby Gap and buy shirts with intentionally-small sleeves to make their arms look bigger. It's presentation, but it's not deception if both parties are aware of it.
When you lie to mislead someone, with the intent of profiting from that lie, that's fraud. Saying "Yeah, I'm a contract attorney with Burns and Sheffler" when you're really the guy who pushes the mail cart, that's a one-sided misrepresentation and you're being maliciously deceptive.
I do agree a bit with Quitch - all interaction is manipulation. When you speak to someone, you are attempting to effect a change whether it's giving them more information than they previously possessed, changing their viewpoint or opinion on a subject, or acquiring anything from information to acknowledgement that you did not possess before. "I say A, therefore causing B" is manipulation. It's not inherently malicious, it's how literally everything in human interaction works.
However - when you intentionally attempt to increase your gain through fraudulent means, that's harmful and shouldn't be done.
Short version: PUAs are jerks, PUAs who advocate using falsehoods to get laid are potentially criminal jerks.
I don't really think you can argue you have all the information, then admit you don't, then hand-wave it away as though you didn't just outargue yourself.
Ending: One day, nothing in his life works as advertised. His phone's spellchecker replaces all of the lies in his texts with truth. On his way to work, he runs out of gas because the fuel gauge lied. He gets a taxi, but it turns out the driver actually doesn't have a license and is just borrowing the cab to pick up women; due to his incompetence, they get into an accident. Finally, he's rushed to the hospital with severe trauma. and as he's going under for a delicate operation, he hears the surgeon say to an orderly, "Don't tell anyone, but I'm actually an acupuncturist."
brb dying of laughter
Okay - let's just be realistic. You pick up a gal based on the fact that she's got (apparently) nice tits. Get her home, off come the clothes, and out fall the chicken cutlets and she's flat as a board. Have you been defrauded? No, because no falsehoods have been explicitly stated unless she said "Yes, these are all-natural 38Ds". You have a right to be disappointed and that is all. It also means you're a shallow jackass, you shallow jackass.
Flip it. You lie about your job or status - this is active deception because telling someone that information is the only way they can acquire it - you are specifically giving them false information, prompted or not. It's the difference between having an open hole in your walkway that's hard to see and people might stumble into, and an intentionally-dug pit that you're camouflaging to look like safe ground with a sign beyond advertising free cookies.
If you have to actively lie to get what you want, you shouldn't have what you want because you haven't earned it.
Oh man, there are not enough likes in the world for this.
Well I think if someone is looking for sex and sex alone then I'm not sure what you're expecting them to judge on beyond physical assets. Unless you think just sex is shallow, but I can't say as I see the problem with someone angling for that. What's wrong with wanting sex?
I'll take false equivalencies and out-of-context quotes for $1000, Alex.
Here's the full quote, how does the context change?
What about the rest of his post?
I think that looking for sex based on your misinterpretation of physical assets is shallow and stupid. There's absolutely nothing wrong with picking someone up in a bar for sex - I think you have an ethical obligation to not egregiously lie in the process, though. If a gal's wearing a dress and bra that make her 32As look like 36Ds and that's the deciding factor for you? I absolutely think that's shallow. I also think anyone who falls for that is stupid and should know better. It's not "you're dumb because you fell for a lie" it's "you're dumb because you put your hand on a hot stove". People like to make themselves look good in order to attract attention - that's not misrepresentation, because they do look good. Otherwise you wouldn't be talking to them. If you expect how someone looks at a club at 1am to be how they're going to look in the light of day the next morning? You're gonna have a bad time.
Personal example - if I want to look good, I trim my beard, comb my hair, and wear a suit. As women who have seen me in a suit may attest (
Rapunzel, back me up!), it's a good look that I can wear well. It's certainly not how I look on my day off around the apartment. Hell, those days there's a significant non-zero chance I won't even remember pants. But the fact that I clean up well is not a deception - it's part of the accepted social contract that if you want to attract positive attention based on your appearance, then you work at it. If I'm wearing a nice suit and some gal asks me if I'm a lawyer or if I work in a bank, I'm going to be honest about it - partly because that's just the right thing to do, and partly because lying about something like that never works out well. It's a scam, and scams always get found out.
Sorry, but you're just going to have to come out and state your point because I don't see how I broke the context.
Well, apart from sexual assault, how would you go about verifying your information?
Why? We're attracted through physical factors.
I said the deciding factor - I define "shallow" as someone who's only looking for one thing: big tits, a sense of humor, a $60K+ paycheck, red hair - anyone who does not have a deep pool of criteria for attraction is, by definition, shallow.
I'm just going to have to back Nute on this one: actively lying about who you are to get sex is not cool. At all. Don't do it.
Did you know this is also called rape?
The Navy actually has a full stop rule on that now. If alcohol was involved, it's rape. The NAVY is ahead of the curve on this one.
Also, as for the rest of your post, manipulating someone via deceit is not equal to trying to impress someone with makeup and a push-up bra. The latter is an example of trying to be an improved version of you. The former is trying to make a worse version of someone else (or being someone who isn't you which is a scummy thing to do and also possibly rape depending on circumstances unless you're a single woman in California).
Nute Have I ever seen you in a suit?
There's a difference between persuading and manipulating. The line isn't always clear, but there's a line. Manipulation involves trying to get someone to do something that he/she does not want to do through deception or other means of control. Persuasion is an honest attempt to state why the person should want to do what you want him/her to do. I see lying and negging as manipulation. Dressing up to show your best side is a form of persuasion. You are saying "Look at my potential!" and then hoping the person finds it appealing. But you aren't manipulating that person.
...what in the hell do you think I was wearing last Friday for my birthday dinner, woman?
Okay, I reassess my opinion of the suit's effectiveness. Damn.
That California story still makes me rage.
Separate names with a comma.