The unofficial Windows 8 thread

Well the talk has been moving to a more aggressive development schedule, no more three year gaps. Haven't seen any detail on what that means though.

The problem with updating through the store is it requires me to go into the store. And check. Manually. It's like someone decided that polling is more efficient than pulling. Why does updating require my involvement at all? I dislike this same setup on my Windows Phone where I randomly discover updates whenever I stagger in.

Yeah, the reason I keep the store tile live is specifically to see when updates come in.

Ah, good then. I don't recall the phone version doing that, though it's no longer on my front screen so perhaps I just never saw the function.

Still not sure why they make me update that stuff manually though.

Okay, I've discovered an issue that's going to get on my tits. Every so often the Start Screen doesn't clear the search box before I start typing.

Also, how do I ensure it doesn't log me into Messenger? Ever? And why is the setting controlling Facebook chat hidden away in an online page that the app doesn't link to?

Who designs this shit?

The video app sucks for the same reason the Zune software sucked at videos, namely that it relies on a tagging system that no one uses, but doesn't provide support for folder structures, which is what everyone does use.

The music app looks great, but we run into yet another Metro failing. CTRL-F has been search since forever, but not in Metro. The Zune app let me just type to search, but not in Metro. Nope, now it's Win-Q... why? And naturally while I can add things to playlists from the browsing view I can't do so from the search view. And the search view pulls up stuff from outside my collection, so it's not even a replcement for searching within the artist/album list! I can change to a My Music search, but it resets every time!!

Also found that I can't view by, say, Artist then Album, it's Artist and then all their songs in one big list and you'll like it like that!

They've also removed the Love/Hate icon that Zune had.

I'll use Xbox Music occasionally for Smart DJ, but that's it. It's actually a step back from the Zune software they'd already produced! Thank goodness for foobar2000. I do wish this app were better though because, like Zune, I think it has easily the best look of any media player around.

Oh, and Microsoft's database of music continues to suck. Seriously, the only After Forever album you can list is their last? You couldn't even, say, add the others to the list based on my own collection?

Also just discovered that even though I marked screen two as the primary screen, Metro still calls it the second screen. Holy Jesus! Now to find a way to fix the numbering.

so, I just finished installing win8 on my laptop. For reference, it's a Lenovo x201 Tablet, which means it has a touchscreen, making it a much uglier and heavier Surface, kinda.

What's the current consensus on must-have apps / mods / whatever to install first? I *can* try to force into a Win7 clone, but I don't want to. I have a proper desktop win7 so this is a play machine at the moment, and I want to get into the new metaphors and workflows as possible to make an honest assessment.

Honestly, there really aren't that many must-have apps right now, which is sort of a problem. The app store has a lot of stuff in it, but most of it is junk. I grabbed a desktop clock called The Time, a calculator app called Numerical, a Metro file browser called File Manager, and One Note (there is also an Evernote app, if that's your poison). I tried a couple of news reader apps, but none of them are even close to being as good as the built-in Bing News one.

After that, I spent a while looking for anything else that might be good to have, but couldn't really find anything. There are tons and tons of alternate versions of the apps that the OS already comes with (Weather, News, People, et al), but they all seem to be inferior to the official apps in various ways.

Has this been covered yet? A lack of multiple windows? What?

That's not strictly true, though they have eliminated the traditional overlapping windows in Metro (or whatever they are calling it now). In that UI, everything runs full-screen, but you can split the screen so that you can see two apps running at once. Splitting is fairly limited at the moment (set aspect ratios, limited to one split/two apps at a time), and I suspect they will have to address those limitations if they want this to be a serious desktop UI going forward.

You can still run programs in traditional windows on the Desktop, though.

Thanks Ben. I was just going back and forth with my brother this morning on it, and we weren't exactly sure what it meant.

I'll say this about Windows 8: the new Task Manager is really nice.

I'll say this about Windows 8: Using the Start Search feature to locate and manipulate system files (a directx .dll in this case) is seemingly a complete no go, even if they aren't hidden. It gives you no options to copy/edit/rename/delete or even open (or see) the file's location. I had to manually root around in my system folders in File Explorer until I found a .dll I was looking to copy. I couldn't find a way to simply search for and copy this file since Start Search was giving me limited access (and I'm admin).

That's not terribly surprising, as Microsoft goes out of their way to shield everyday users from their system files. Those files WILL show up in the search in Windows Explorer, if you have the option enabled to show them. I don't think the Explorer visibility settings have any bearing on the Metro search.

Sounds completely reasonable to me. Why would you want people to find system files from the start screen? Anyone tinkering on that level can be expected to use dir /s from the command line anyway.

So, perhaps a stupid question here.

Several manufacturers are putting out touch-monitors for Windows 8 - if you've installed Windows 8 on an older machine, do your graphics card need to support touch in any way, or is Windows 8 and the screen drivers enough (I's guess the latter, but was asked and wasn't 100% sure)

Presumably the latter, assuming the touch data is passed from the monitor to the computer using some kind of USB connection. The monitors I've found in a quick search seem to work this way.

The actual panel in a touchscreen is like any other. They connect via standard interfaces (DVI, HDMI, etc.) The overlaying touch sensor is a USB controlled HID device, and so doesn't need a driver.

I wrote about this here: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2014043/how-to-pick-the-best-desktop-display-for-windows-8.html

That's what I figured, but needed to be sure. Thanks.

lolwut? Why would I suddenly change my file explorer interface just because of the type of file?

Yeah cnahr, why would a sysadmin-stroke-power-user want to use a different, more appropriate interface to do something that 90% of users don't want or need to do? Powershell? Pshaw! Diskpart? Fuck that shit!

Start screen search is not a file explorer. It's a search function for apps that you want to run, similar to the search box on the Start menu in Windows 7.

Uh, the Start Screen is for searching and has a category called Files. It then proceeds to list those files. How is this not a file explorer?

So in the Search Screen I type a file to search for it, but instead I should be using Powershell where I will type out a search. What?

Yes, that's what I said.

Or, alternatively, I provided two more examples of 'power user' tools for which there are (arguably) less fully-featured alternatives.

You're responding to a conversation no one is having but you.

It's a specialized file explorer intended specifically for finding and launching programs. This is why it is part of the "Start" screen. It includes files because we often launch programs via specific files (I.e. you launch Word by opening a specific document). What it isn't--and isn't intended to be--is a full-blown file browser that lets you mess with directory structures, move files around, and access system files.

Again, it's exactly the same as the search function in the Windows 7 Start menu. Did it bug you that the Windows 7 search wasn't a full-featured file explorer?

Yes, it's a file explorer, like I said.

Ten points to Gryffindor? Did you even bother to read anything else I wrote?

While there are a bunch of valid criticisms of Win8's UI, the one thing that I think is inarguably true is that an OS designed by those critics would be much, much worse.

I stated the Start Screen was a file explorer, you said it wasn't, then you said it was, thus agreeing with me. You started doing something about levels of capability within the file explorer and I'm not sure who that was aimed at.

Are you actually trying to understand his point, or are you just interested in winning debating points? If the former, you've missed it comprehensively; re-read what he wrote and think about what he could mean, and ask questions if it's still not clear to you. If the latter, your argument is transparently silly enough that you'd be racking up negative points for irritating the judges by repeating it, except that there actually are no judges and no points are being awarded.

Rather than guessing, why doesn't he just quote what he's responding to? In my quote I ask him how it's not a file explorer and he agrees it is. What more is there? I haven't made any points regarding the quality of the Start Screen as a file explorer, so I don't understand why he's quoting me and listing the limitations of it as a file explorer. Where exactly did I say it was a good file explorer, or the measure by which all file explorers should be judged?

So like I said. I have no idea who he is talking to. This is why we quote people.

Aaaand the answer you're looking for appears to be NO!

I'd love to know what its abilities as a file explorer have to do with anything I said.

Ben already pointed out the Start screen has the same capabilities as Windows 7's Start button when it comes to searching. You apparently expect it to be more comprehensive than what was offered in the equivalent Windows 7 feature. Why is that?

Anyway, it's a bit of a niche request since the number of people needing to search for dll files is probably really tiny -- and they can already do it from File Explorer, anyway.

Having gotten past the novelty phase of Windows 8 I find I'm pretty much only using the Start screen to launch my desktop programs. The only apps I use regularly are weather, Reader (PDF viewer) and Microsoft's Mahjong game, which is surprisingly decent. Overall Win8 doesn't feel much different than using Windows 7 most of the time, save for occasionally having to search (!) for something that got moved.

What? Where did I say that?

This is a forum, you can quote me directly rather than summarising what you think I said.

I'm amazed you can tell because at this point I'm not sure you have any idea what the fuck you're on about. But just to clarify, you said this:

Which seems to suggest that you think that the Start Search feature should return results that are more comprehensive than it currently does and that you shouldn't have to use a different search tool to see those results.