The iPad works for me really well doing what you describe but I've no real experience with any other tablet. It's easy enough to grab the mac keyboard and sling it in a bag with the iPad. Someone linked to a case for the apple Bluetooth keyboard recently which doubles as a stand for the iPad in landscape or portrait mode which I really must get hold if at some point. I did buy the iPad to mainly surf the web from the sofa but I'm surprised just how much I end up using it for serious things and the keyboard helps on that front.
Hopefully, anyway. I know that the Asus Transformer But With Windows RT Instead of Android runs $600, which is stupid.
Wow, that's indeed stupid. I wasn't aware of any RT tablets above $500, that should be the price range for Windows 8 Pro ersatz laptops.
Where are you seeing $300 ones? The Surface RT starts at $499 with its low-res screen, officially. The Asus Vivo RT is $599 for hardware exactly equivalent to the $399 TF300. WinRT tablets are EXPENSIVE. (Weirdly, the Acer W510, which runs real Win8 and not stupid, pointless RT, is $499. Acer makes cheap hardware in general (their 1920x1200 ICS Tegra 3 tablet is $349 at Amazon, a full $150 below Asus's Transformer Infinity), so it's not totally surprising they'd be cheaper than everyone else, but still.)
I've got the TFI with the dock, and as I've said in other threads, it's really amazingly workable as a laptop. It's got the netbook nature (slow, cramped keyboard), but with an amazing screen and phenomenal battery life and oh yeah plus it's a tablet. I think if you're looking at using it laptop-style, that kind of keyboard dock thing is going to be more usable than a disconnected Bluetooth keyboard, although I suppose there may be cases that hold the tablet and a keyboard together in a laptoppy way. As for the 7" or 10" dilemma, I'm pretty certain I'm going to end up with both. I love the 10" for reading comics and laptop web purposes, but for reading books it's too big and heavy, and I want the smaller one. If you have a legacy eink e-reader that you're content with, though, you could just use that in place of the smaller tablet.
"Officially?" Source please. I haven't seen any official price announcement yet. So far I haven't seen any cheap RT tablets either, but back in August Lenovo said that RT tablets would be "up to $300 less" than Pro tablets, and the latter would cost $6-700. If they all end up costing $500+ that would be seriously stupid.
I can't link to the relevant pages on Microsoft's store because I'm in Ireland, but there's a link in this Verge article.
Thanks, apparently the prices were just announced today. And wow, that's completely insane and stupid. Okay, disregard everything I said above, ignore Windows RT tablets, they are so not worth it at that price. Check out Windows 8 Pro tablets if you're willing to spend $1000 instead. edit: ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS for the touch cover!? Why not charge extra for the Microsoft logo? edit2: Haha, the separate version is ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY DOLLARS! Must be made of the same diamond-encrusted solid gold as the 360 WiFi adapter.
I have to concur here. I handled a Nexus 7, and it's basically what a rooted Kindle Fire looks like, except lighter, thinner, and faster. If I weren't such a chickenshit I'd root my Fire ( Garoun rooted his and it's fine but I'm a coward,) but if I were to buy a new tablet of similar size, I'd get a Nexus, because one of my biggest beefs with the Fire is the Google crippling.
Invites when out today...so by Tuesday I will know if they are going with a slightly larger screen that I really want. Well and all the other more important stuff too. http://www.macrumors.com/2012/10/16/apple-issues-invitations-for-october-23-media-event/
Eh, just get a Surface, if Windows RT doesn't work out, you can always root it and install Open webOS!
I tried typing on an iPad with the bluetooth keyboard and it worked all right, but I definitely wouldn't have been comfortable with a smaller tablet. My BF has one of those cases that doubles as a keyboard, and it already feels cramped to me the few times I've used it. If the screen were any further away, then it becomes more trouble than it's worth. I would -- and did -- end up getting a MacBook Air and using it for couch-bound typing-intensive stuff, and I love it. The problem isn't just text size, incidentally -- it's the lack of a mouse. You can do a good bit of navigation with a good keyboard, but I was surprised by how much I was having to touch the screen. I guess I can see now the appeal of a 7-8" tablet, but personally I've never had a problem with the size & weight of the iPad 2 and 3. Even when reading, I'm interacting with the screen often enough that one-handed use isn't that big a deal for me. The bigger issue for me is hauling it out on a plane or a bus, where I'm concerned about its getting scratched up or stolen. For that, I got the cheapest Kindle I could find. I can stuff it into a jacket pocket if I'm going to be away from home long enough to need a distraction, and if it gets broken or stolen I'm "only" out $70 or so. For everything I use the iPad for, the bigger screen is nothing but a benefit. I'd say figure out exactly how much media consumption vs. productivity you're planning for. I'm skeptical that any tablet could at this point be a good laptop replacement -- even though that seems to be the big selling point of the Surface -- and even when I'm doing nothing but full-screen word processing or web browsing, I still prefer the laptop keyboard and trackpad.
It's unclear if that'll be possible, actually. That being said, I'm picking up a Surface RT for dev purposes and such, so I suppose I can let you know.
There is a ton of people complaining about shoddy build quality for the Nexus 7 on the Canadian Redflagdeals forums and serious quality control problems, and also that Google/Asus is barely refurbishing them, and re-sending them to people as is. I would stay away from it. It is still admittedly sorta tempting, a 7 incher can be good for some light bed browsing, although I can't stand tablets for any other use. Ultimately I think I'd just prefer to eventually get a Note... when my One X contract runs out, that is. It will probably be a Note 4 at that time. :P
That happened to my friend, she picked up a Nexus 7 from Staples and thought it was great for the week that it worked. It then went into some kind of password-protected maintenance mode that no one could figure out. She's still waiting for the replacement unit.
I did post this in that other place (just fyi) but I got the iPad mini today: 10 minutes on my new iPad mini. It is very thin. It is very light. It actually weights 2 ounces less than my Kindle reader with the lighted cover. 7.9 inches is the perfect size to read magazines. Reading my PC Gamer mag on my 1st gen Fire means I can only see part of page and need to move it around. On this thing, the entire page fits nice on the screen and the text is very readable. Apps are very snappy. Screen...ok this coming from someone that thinks that movies on the iPad 1 look great- this looks great too. Watched a couple of trailers and fired up a movie I was watching on Amazon- I am very pleased. It is not uncomfortable to hold- actually it is quite nice. The bezels are..interesting I guess. I have to say, the back is a bit slick though. Not entirely sure how that will affect reading and such just yet. I cannot say anything about the sound- I am at work and they probably would not like me blasting the trailer for Skyfall while I am supposed to be working. I took a peek at my Kindle app and tried a bit of reading- the text is very clear and sharp. The thumb position while on the screen did not accidentally turn any pages - again this was only a very brief look at it so don't hold me to it. In general, I think the size hits the mark perfectly. I have always felt that 7 inches was just too small. The 7.9 seems to be just perfect for a smaller tablet. That coupled with immediate syncing with my iTunes, contacts and all things in the evil Apple universe plus my Nook books, Kindle books, magazines, HBO Go, Amazon video...I have it all in one spot. And the apps so far do scale perfectly from a regular iPad to the Mini. And so many of them look so much better than on my Fire...they are true apps, not just glorified phone apps. Oh I grabbed the 16 meg Black version. FYI, if you are going to say Best Buy like I did, if they are sold out, check to see if you have a Best Buy Mobile in your mall- I went at noon and was the first person today to come in and buy one-my regular BB, a mile away was sold out of everything but Black 64 gig models. So far so good.
Over in the Win8 thread, caesarbear was all: But so the thing is: This is real today. I bought the Transformer and used it for a few months without the keyboard dock at all. It's a tablet as pure as any out there. It's just that it also has a keyboard that you can attach. And the same is true of the Surface and other Windows tablets: You can use them with a keyboard/mouse if you want, or you can use them as a pure touch device if you want. And so what determines how you use it is not the device itself, but what you want to do. Do you want to read comics? Just grab the tablet. Want to write a lengthy series of forum posts about tablets? Snap in that keyboard and you're off to the races in Tapatalk. Want to use it as a gaming device? Plug in the PS3 controller and load up the SNES emulator. The tablet provides the processor and the screen and one possible form of input, and the others can be bolted on as appropriate.
Late to the party and all of that, but I picked up a Nexus 7 16gb yesterday. Pretty happy so far with what it does and it was very easy to setup and get a few apps onto. Long-term we will see how much I end up using it for the things I justified buying it for, but for the $199 you can get it for now it seems like a reasonable risk to take.
Mind if I ask where you bought it? Online or retail? I've looked at three different Office Depot stores in the area, and one GameStop (after swearing years ago that I'd never enter a GameStop again). Nobody had any on display, so I've still never actually seen one in person.
As far as I've seen, nobody has the 16GB in stock, but the 32GB is pretty ubiquitous. It's possible the retail places are phasing out the 16GB one, just as they didn't carry the 8GB one, for lack of margin at the $199 price, but I don't really know. (OfficeMax gave me a $15 store credit card when I bought the N7 there, which I guess I can use if I need... um, pens? Dude at the register actually tried to sell me some paper, because yeah, when I buy a tablet, I need a few reams of paper.)
Thanks for the info, Sarkus. I'll see if they have any actually on display. I'll also have to see if there's a Wal-Mart within 50 miles of here. Speaking of tablets: I had absolutely zero interest in the iPad mini, to the point that I didn't understand how anybody could want one. Last night I stopped into an Apple Store, and it was creepy how quickly I changed my mind. It feels like the perfect size for the thing. It's going to be hard talking myself out of buying one once they announce the "retina" version, since I can't be putting up with no chumpy, lo-res displays. And the Surface tablet was actually nicer than I'd expected. It's a lot thinner and lighter than it seems to be in pictures. The touch cover is a novelty but not all that practical, but the type cover is almost imperceptibly thicker, and functions every bit as well as a laptop keyboard. I think the screen size is all wrong, since it just feels ridiculous to hold it vertically. And I don't really need Windows on a tablet unless I can play games with it. But the Surface Pro is going to be tempting as well -- for me, the pressure-sensitive stylus is the whole thing.
I can do all of that with my PS3 as well (except carry it around) but I would never want to. You're still arguing that if something is possible then it means it's equivalent. You're ignoring my tools argument, that a tablet's purpose is to be the only tool while a computer wants you to add a whole tool box. No matter how powerful tablets get, they are still defined by their interface and form. The reason Apple released the miniPad despite earlier statements from the old guard that it won't is because the market for tablets is zeroing in on what is the most convenient. 7½ inches is more convenient than 10. To put it another way, no one is going to do this with their tablet:
For me, the Surface Pro sounds the most appealing of the Surfaces, just on the off chance that I could get a game like Xcom to run on it.
XCOM should run fine on the Surface Pro, but there should be a few equivalent OEM choices by the time it's out. Perhaps some with faster CPUs or proper (mobile) GPUs.
I like that Civ V already has a Touch-specific version for Win 8. Looking forward to test that on a tablet.
I've re-read this thread and spent some hands-on time with the iPad mini, Nexus 7 and Surface RT (with Type Cover). I've read reviews of the Nexus 10 but haven't seen one in the wild and have not read anything yet review-wise on the just-released Kobo Arc (a 7" Android tablet), which has specs very similar to the Nexus 7. The one Arc I found at a local Chapters store was locked down and inaccessible (see my post in the nerd rage thread). While trying out all of these devices has helped me narrow down my choices, I'm still mulling. I've decided against getting an iPad mini because Apple will make it better fit its price in a year with a Retina display and if I'm going iPad, I'd rather go all-in on the full-size version. Leaving aside gaming and breadth of apps (neither of which is overly compelling for me), the Nexus 7 is a better fit for being a general purpose ereader replacement. I actually rather like the Surface RT with the Type Cover but it's expensive, the app selection is downright poor (not just lacking compared to Apple) and as ChuckJ said, it feels awkward to hold it vertically, making it a less than optimal choice for book reading. The Transformer is nice and a good value for the 32 GB version (matching the iPad 16 GB), with a great display and battery life. Here the decision is mainly on whether I want a 7" or 10" display. And finally there's the iPad. I'd prefer 32 GB, which makes it rather pricey at $600 but there's no denying it has a fantastic display, great battery life and is well-supported. Between the Transformer and iPad it mainly comes down to OS preference because either could fit my basic needs. The zany newness of Android (for me) may give the Transformer the edge. I'm ruling out the Neuxs 10 for now because despite generally great specs it appears to have mediocre to poor battery life and that *is* something that's important to me. I may dip my toes in the tablet water with a Nexus 7 and then, if I decide that a 7" display is too constraining, I'll revisit the 10" tablets and see what's happening there a little further down the road.
You are a research king! FWIW, as someone who owns both the Transformer Infinity and the Nexus 7, here's the pros of each. TFI: Better suited for reading comics (though the N7 is shockingly workable if you have good eyesight); screen is brighter, richer and marginally sharper; can work with the keyboard dock to be a near-substitute for a laptop (and gets super-phenomenal battery life when used with the dock, or even just snapped into it between uses). N7: It's faster in effect (the Tegra 3 loafs along with 1280x800 displays, but is really straining at 1920x1200, and the TFI is the only Android device I've ever used that actually has any lag to it), it's more comfortable in the hand, it's better suited for reading prose books, it has stock Android and gets updates quickly (TFI is nearly-stock and gets updates reasonably fast, but not as fast, obviously), and it's half the price of the TFI for the 32GB versions. I think it's hard to go wrong with the N7.
I've got both an Ipad 3 and a Nexus 7, but only had the nexus 7 for like a week so cant add much useful yet. I ebayed off my old iPhone 4 and the money I got from that more than paid for a Nexus 7, so it was a bit of an impulse purchase. the Ipad 3 seems a bit snappier on OS transitions / app switching etc but only marginally so. For web browsing I'm not finding that 7" vs 10" is significantly limiting, but 10" is a better browsing experience without doubt N7 can run dosbox and a C64 emulator :-0 This was one of the main reasons I bought it :-) Still mucking around getting them set up though For books, I tend to use the kindle app on my Ipad, even if not bought via kindle / amazon (side load with Calibre). I've read whole (long) books this way on Ipad, but the ipad is a VERY heavy device. usually I read by being on my side and resting the iPad on couch / bed surface and it works. I've not read anything more than 5 minutes so far, but the N7 seems likely to be a far superior reader, if only for size/weight reasons. the screen font is highly legible, I dont think the N7 PPI misses much over the Ipad. (bear in mind I have never had a dedicated ereader) I have not really read comics on either device so cant comment. The Witcher comic I got with the PC game looked very pretty on the Ipad though. I'm not a big movie watcher (my cable company finally got a iPad app though and I enjoyed several episodes of band of brothers on it the other day) iOS spanks android on available games, but I think you mentioned that was not a factor. I was able to get acceptable business / productivity stuff happening on Ipad (ie ability to edit MS office files), not tried on N7 yet. Battery life on the N7 looks like it will be marginally better, but they are both so good its not much of a consideration (we are talking days to over a week between charging, with using it an hour or two each day for both devices) Price wise though, N7 is obviously spanking the ipad - its like about 50% of the cost. So pretty that makes ALL of the comparisons I have just made wildly unfair! I'd more take these as points as answering the question "Will I be happy with a 7" tablet, or should I believe Steve Jobs when he said they should come with sandpaper for your fingers and just get a proper 10" tablet? For me so far, the answer is a qualified "Steve was wrong" - in the discrete tasks of web browsing, email, and book reading. (Albeit 10" is better for browsing) One thing - don't get the Asus travel cover for the Nexus 7. They blow. Its just a bit of rubber that wraps around and then gets in the way when you actually want to use the tablet. I'm looking for a pouch /sleeve thing I can just put the N7 inside for protection when I want to put it in my bag to take to work or whatever and then leaving it naked when in use, sitting on desk etc. It makes you appreciate that the magnetic covers on the ipad are actually pretty good. And yeah iPad mini is sucker bait - they have a retina version up their sleeves for sure
Thanks for the write-up, Talorc! Very helpful to see the experiences of someone who has both devices. A general question on the 7" vs. 10" size for anyone: How do magazines and PDFs feel on a 7" tablet? Are they fine or do they feel cramped at all?
I have had the Nexus 7 for a few days now, and I must say that for most of the things I like to use the iPad for (PDF, Web, magazines, comics) I find that the screen is too small compared to my iPad (3) - the size is better for books , but I have an even lighter Kindle for that. And it's not like reading webpages is a problem, I just prefer 10" to 7". I also find that Safari on the iPad scales webcontent better than Chrome for the Nexus - but that might just be some select sites. But it's a very nice tablet, and if price was an issue, I'd have no qualms recommending it. And while I haven't tried the iPad Mini yet, I think I'd rate the Nexus higher. Surprisingly, my kids love it, because you can change everything around (backgrounds, lock-screen, widgets) after a day in the hands of my 11-year old daughter the thing gives me painful MySpace-flashbacks, but of course all that customization doesn't have to be used for evil...
If you've got the 4.2 update, which was pushed out last week, you can set them up with their own accounts where they can customize everything to their own liking while leaving you with a more... subdued look. (And can't get into your email.) Only downside to that is that apps are tied to the user and not the device, so if you have pay apps, they wouldn't be able to use them without buying their own copy or logging into your account.
I really like my Nexus7 two weeks in, but the screen size does have its limits. Apps like Tapatalk help for a lot of websites, but since not all sites use the same tablet apps and some of them are pay apps, it can add up pretty quickly to just have a more easily readable screen. I do feel like the 7" screen displays a lot of websites at about the tiniest screen size I could probably still read without getting an immediate headache. Of course its not that hard to zoom in, but then you are moving the screen in all different directions just to read. On the other hand, its great for reading books. And the overall size makes it a lot more portable. Depends on what you need, and for half the price of an IPad I'm willing to live with the limits of a 7" screen.
I've done further test-driving, spending more time with the current iPad, an Asus Transformer Infinity, manhandling the Nexus 7 more intimiately and getting some hands-on with a Kobo Arc. For $20 more the Nexus 7 sports a quad core processor to the Kobo Arc's dual core, so it wins out overall. It's a very spiffy tablet. But I've come to realize that unless I simply want a color ereader, a 7" tablet is going to be too small for my typical usage scenarios. It would be workable but not entirely pleasurable and I likes me some pleasure. This leaves four major choices in tablets that are around 10". I'm repeating some of the pros and cons I listed in my previous summary, so bear with me as you feel deja vu all over again: Nexus 10 Pros: - great display - Android 4.2 - great value ($400 for 16 GB) Cons: - mediocre battery life (maybe 7+ hours would end up being okay for me, hard to say with no previous tablet experience) - it apparently only exists as images on the Internet. I've never seen one in a store yet Surface RT Pros: - sharp display - works well as a pseudo-tablet with Type Cover keyboard - shares apps with Windows 8 - the GUI is funky and new -- I like the look of the large, simple tiles Cons: - expensive - app store is full of tumbleweeds, with some key apps missing - does not work well in vertical orientation (too tall) - who knows if Microsoft will chuck the whole thing if sales don't measure up iPad with retina display (what the rest of the world calls the iPad 4) Pros: - stunning display - fast (by far the snappiest of the tablets I checked out) - excellent battery life - apps as far as the eye can see - broad range of supporting devices Cons: - premium price - feels heavy - urge to wear turtleneck while holding it Transformer Pad Infinity 700 Pros: - very nice display - good value vs. iPad - excellent battery life - works well as a pseudo-laptop with keyboard dock, with bonus boost to battery life Cons: - not the best overall value - fewer apps than Apple (though major bases are covered) - not running the latest version of Android (but close) Of these four, I am eliminating the Surface RT and Nexus 10, leaving me with the following cage match: Asus Transformer Pad Infinity 700 vs Apple iPad with retina display Disregarding any sales, the Transformer is about $500 for the 32 GB version, $100 less than the equivalent iPad. That's not insignificant. But there's no denying the iPad's hardware is great and build quality is top-notch. I'm not a big fan of iOS, though. It feels weirdly conservative and limited to me. Maybe that wouldn't end up mattering much. I continue to mull but at least I've narrowed it down as much as possible.
