Count me as another 'can't play action TD's to save my life' Gave up on the T25 AT after 75 times with the worst win rate ever - 33%. T49 was at 58%.
The StuG is arguably a better TD, pound for pound. I think action TD describes the uralmash, stug and the likes pretty well. then there's in-between TD's such as T25 and JagdPanther which do equally well hanging back and sniping. I am an action player. I dont mind dying but i do want to take some of the fuckers with me. mobility + DPS are what i need. hence my love for the 122-44, the uralmash and its likes.
I just had a great game in my T-54, had to share. Got my ace tanker. It really shows the power of mediums - able to to move to different parts of the battlefield. My initial foray was a dead-end, overextended myself and was able to extract myself & head back to base just in time. I didn't handle the 4502 very well, took a lot of damage, but I was able to finish him off and go reset the flag. Arty was a huge help and did a great job as well.
Yowza, that went right down to the wire. I think you went around the entire battlefield at least twice! Most hilarious moment: when the Tiger II drove off the side of the cliff and ended up de-tracking himself while exposing his flank. Don't forget to switch off the gold rounds. I think you switched them to shoot up the VK4502 and then forgot you had them on and proceeded to shootup the enemy artillery using some very expensive rounds!
Yes, I should have switched off gold - I actually set them when I was going against the patton and after killing the 4502, by adrenaline was going so much, the arty caught me off guard, but oh well. Small price to pay for a win. I carry 10 gold rounds (using credits) in each of my tanks. I find that I only use them occasionally, but man when you need them, they can come in real handy.
Tier III is such a strange tier, I'd forgotten. Some games, you're the king, thrown in against tractors and other WWI relics, and then other games, your gun will be woefully inadequate in both damage and penetration, and your opponents can hit you anywhere and one shot you.
There is a T3 british tank (Cruiser MK II) that one-shotted me with his derp cannon in my hetz. It's a T5 howitzer that does 370 dmg but I agree with you most T3's, especially stock T3's are worthless against T5 Heavies. I'm grinding the T21 and finding that is even more "meh" than the T-43. It's classified as a scout and being in a T9 battle isn't a lot of fun. I can pen things from the side, so not completely worthless - but view range and speed are abysmal. I'm just doing it to get to the T-71.
There are a couple of low Tier outliers, especially upgraded. The american's stick a ridiculously huge mortar on their Tier III TD as well. And the Marder can get a Tier V gun as well that's quite the surprise when I've been running as a KV.
Hey Supper's Ready, I noticed your post on World of Tanks forums, and I typically stay out of those posts there b/c no serious dialogue ever occurs, but in all honesty, WoT has nerfed arty so much that it's not even funny how bad it is now. I loved my SU-8 so much I kept playing it through my SU-14 doldrums and my OBJ-212, but it's a pale shadow of it's former self. I won't even buy the OBJ-261 because of how bad they have nerfed arty. For the first 100 battles of my OBJ-212, I had a 60% win rate, now I have 50%, so that means I've been averaging 40% over the past 150 battles. I'm grinding the french line right now, and it's comical how bad arty is. Seriously, here are my points: 1. Hardly any splash. I can hit the cigarette the driver flicks out the hatch, and you won't get nary a scratch on you. 2. 100% crew is equivalent to what a 50% crew used to be. My odds of hitting the center of my reticle are about 10% 3. Aiming time has increased as well as the effects of movement to the point where all I'm doing is waiting for my reticle to get small. Bottom line is that yes, the occasional hit will get lucky, but for me, it's a joke. Honestly, it's hard for me to believe that people complain because it's so unreliable anymore. See, I think that this game has trained 85% of players to sit back and shoot at red outlines. The lack of courage or aggressiveness is what is killing this game and people are used to sitting in bushes with impunity, counting on that aggressive driver or scout to flush them out. I've seen this countless times on battles with zero arty (which are becoming quite common these days) and it's really frustrating.
Arty is a terrible mechanic simply because it will quite randomly hit for the majority of a tank's health or miss completely for no effect. It turns into gambling quite quickly, and should have been replaced long ago with far more accurate but lower damage fire to flush hard targets out of cover and damage modules to weaken targets. The problem people have with it is that arty players hate how inaccurate it can be, and everyone else hates that an accurate arty hit essentially ends the game for a tank.
Personally, I will almost always take more risks in a game with no arty than a game where arty is present. Whether that ends up being good for me, or not, is still a crapshoot. But I am always more willing to flank an enemy, or engage in an open field when arty is not present. They have noticeably tuned down artillery damage and accuracy since last time I played, but the prevalence of artillery in tier 9+ matches still makes them no fun. Even if they have a much smaller % chance to hit, the fact there are usually no less than 4 of them per side still encourages camping. I should add, that I have 500-odd games in an S-51 prenerf, and around 100 post nerf. The only time I find myself doing well post nerf, is when I am willing to fire gold rounds.
I agree with the randomness you state. On French tier IV & V Arty, my damage can be between 10 and 450, which are both direct hits. I've ony been playing the teir V arty for the past 3 days, so it might be better. It would be better to have 125-150 damage and be far more accurate - it's a joke how small the reticle is on french tanks and how often RNG puts my shot on the outer ring.
I only play pubs, but I felt arty got seriously weakened already with just the adding of french lights. Nowadays, I feel like it's a bit of a crapshoot, as I have to worry about my team being dumb and letting a scout through, on top of them just behaving poorly or deciding not to defend a side well, or at all. And then the hit points, well, annoying, but not a huge deal, but the accuracy and grind/money changes are a big pain. I feel like, from game to game, even if I had 100% lined up all my shots, I could have a completely different result because the large scatter of the RNG. Pubbies also seem to think we're instant shot, death sticks, I don't think they seem to realize our accuracy sucks and the reload and aim time are both very high. My S-51 only has 12 shots, and I haven't ever run out of ammo since the last patch during a game. I also only make piddly amounts of money on a good game, I could probably grind out money faster on that free Tier II tank they gave out on New Years. I do think that 3 per side should probably be the max arty, 4 and up starts to get crazy amounts of rain. Though, I think forces that rely on mobility instead of being heavy tend to walk all over arty, like the late tier chinese, french and USA medium lines.
It's not that you're instant shot death sticks. It's that if I get tracked and arty is looking in the area, I'm probably fucked. This allows a small number of tanks to hold a flank just by tracking things for arty to murder. I think arty absolutely adds to the game, and helps deal with bully tanks (my IS-6 for example with 10 kills one game because nothing on the other team could really threaten me with no arty backup). Some arty kind of sucks, but what bothers people really is the crazy damage on a hit. I really wouldn't mind getting hit by arty if it wasn't a death sentence due to how HE works in WoT. It's basically the same complaint I have against 105mm HEAT. It's a crap shoot to instantly wreck a tank. That's a shit mechanic, imo. I've played arty and know the bullshit of dead accurate shots that land in another zip code. Which is just another shit mechanic trying to balance out the massive damage. And old T10 matches with 6 arty per side were just dumb in the general "the MM sucks at trying to make teams and always has" sense.
I think I've only managed to 1-shot tier 8s with my S-51, it tends to usually just be about 800 or so. I'd be fine if they want to lower the super crits but up the average DPS overall. (Through increased accuracy/splash or decreased aim time or some other method)
Mediums get one shot pretty often, or lit on fire and every module on the tank destroyed. It's part of why I dislike the mechanic entirely: SPGs are crazy good at murdering lights and mediums that are stationary for a second (be they tracked or unknowingly spotted) compared to their effectiveness against the things they're supposed to demolish (heavily armored pillboxes of Heavies and TDs)
Doesn't everybody take sixth sense? =) I've never one-shotted a tier IX or X medium, but then again I'm like, Tier VI, though the next tier doesn't get any bigger of a gun.
The S-51's big gun can one shot a tier 10 medium with a solid rear deck hit. What you're mostly seeing is when a shot hits the turret fronts and bleeds a ton of damage due to how HE works. It's also why Cents and Caerns hate arty so much: they have a GIANT flat rear deck.
The last time I was one-shot by arty in ANY tank was, well, yesterday, but that's mostly because it was one of the tier 3 special clan wars matches. The last time I was one-shot by arty in a pub was two weeks ago and it was because I forgot that my T21 crew doesn't have light bulb. It doesn't happen nearly as often as it's made out to.
In my S-51, I've one shotted ( not ammo rack ) a T110E5, 4 or 5 Lorraines, 2 Batchats, an IS-8 that I can remember off the top of my head. Lorraines are really, really easy to 1 shot. I actively seek them out. I think the only reason I've not 1 shotted any AMX 50t is due to the fact I rarely see them in pubs. The other night, during the Arty weekend special, I managed to take out 3 T34s from 100-0 ( only one was a 1 shot ) in one game. It was probably the best game I've ever had in my S-51, but was only possible due to the mad amounts of gold rounds I was slinging. I made nothing off the match after ammo costs.
I barely make any money as is, I can't see how shooting gold rounds would help. But I'm not premium either.
Yeah it was really more of a " I think I can at least break even with these credit bonuses " type of thing. I'd never use them without the earning bonus Arty had this weekend.
Right, it's not fun for either side. Living and dying by RNG is only tolerable to a point. Let's say this is the case (I happen to agree). Why would this suddenly change? Why would the majority of the player base suddenly gain tactical sense, aggression and the understanding of the game's mechanics? Let's be realistic, that is just not going to happen, probably ever. And even if it did, those people would still be living and dying by the RNG, just like the rest of us competent players do now. I see the exact opposite, actually. After the cries of joy at the absence of arty in the battle, the tactics people use change completely. With the most basic of coordination, it becomes far easier to rally and organize people when they are unafraid of death strikes from above (simply saying something like "2/3 push south, 1/3 guard cap please" leads to people actually doing so!). I personally make a conscious decision to do things differently because so many options become viable all of a sudden, and most of the terrain becomes usable again. Artillery is and has always been a terrible game mechanic in WoT. Unfortunately, the Russian server realm is apparently in love with the damn things, so we are probably just screwed here on the NA realm.
I actually have found the arty nerf to be a quality of life improvement for my Object 261, because previously my damage was too low to one shot other t8 arty while they could one shot me. Now I can one shot them as well. I still make money on that arty despite the ~37k repair cost and expensive ammo.
I know that people don't like artillery, but most maps would be unplayable in clan wars without it. And a few (notably, El Halluf and Malinovka) would be unplayable even in pubs. The problem is that the "opening up" of the map is in fact not based on more strategies becoming viable, but the fact that most other players are idiots and will engage in suboptimal behaviors, thus breaking the stalemate. You can already see this in action on maps which don't allow for effective artillery: it's almost impossible to dislodge a competent defender on a map like Himmelsdorf, Mountain Pass, or even Mines (SIMP, if you recall, held a Mines landing for three whole months. Plus the landing tournament, that is over 90 wins in a row). Even maps which don't LOOK like it--like Sand River and Highway--are extremely defense-biased in the absence of artillery.
I played all these maps without artillery, many times, and never found them unplayable. The exact opposite, actually. Granted I only play solo-pub random battles (minus Assault) and care nothing for Clan Wars (so artillery opt out need not apply to them), but I never found it impossible to dislodge defenders on any of these maps.
I find that without artillery, the scouts have less to do. In the games where I've forgotten that there is no arty, and I break through behind enemy lines in a light, I end up basically doing nothing, as the lights are too weak to hold the flag, and the damage output on them is anemic. They might be able to kill a lone TD or distract a heavy, but it's definitely less rewarding. EDIT: I actually don't find Assault all that bad, yes, sometimes pubbies are stupid and don't seem to realize the the game mode IS assault, but I've definitely been in plenty of fun matches in Assault.
In my 13 90 with no Arty, I just light up everything I can while staying safe, then flank where possible to unload a clip into the back of a tank ( will kill 99% of tanks I come across ) and go back to scouting until another opportunity opens up. I have no issue with Assault itself, I just don't like how they've set the maps up. T28/T95 on attacking side is the worst experience in the game, so I opt out.
Yeah, scouts with a 90mm gun get more leeway in what they can target. The non-french lights (and I suppose non-chinese lights too) don't have that luxury. Granted, It's been a while since I've even seen a Leopard. Does the MM still stick scouts in battles over their tier like they do with TDs?
Yes, scouts are still boned by the MM. They're still functional without arty, but a lot of their purpose is just as easily done by high tier mediums. TDs don't get nearly as boned, they're just basically one tier higher than they look, like heavies.
Any scout is still incredibly useful in games without artillery. One of the greatest strength a team can have is a player in a light tank that knows how to passive scout. That one scout, positioned properly, can lead to a third of the enemy being annihilated in the first few minutes of a battle. And he can continue to grant that advantage throughout the battle. In contrast, in battles with artillery, the majority of light tank players just rush in and suicide, essentially wasting their capabilities and screwing the team in the process. And I disagree that their function can be replicated by higher tier mediums, or rather that it should be, because you are then wasting the firepower of those mediums (which is substantial).
The VK2801 can mount the 105mm derp cannon. With gold rounds they can deal 500ish damage a shot to pretty much anything up to tier 8. All of the other scouts ( with the exception of maybe the leopard and A-20 ) are capable of taking out the enemy artillery once in range. I ended up with the kill 3 artillery in a match medal in a tier 7 game while grinding the chinese M5A1. That tank was actually a blast, I kind of wanted to keep it.
I think gold rounds are pretty much limited to Premium users, I don't see a feasible way for non-subscribers to make money at a rate high enough to sustain their use.
For the German tier V 105 derp cannon, gold rounds are "only" 2800 creds per. It isn't super massive, but you definitely would have a difficult time breaking even if you used them exclusively with no premium.
A one time purchase of a premium tank, for credit generation, easily sustains the usage of a few gold rounds per battle (though most often you need not use any), under a standard account. Scouts, however, are best used to passive scout, not fire at all, and leech 50% of the credits and XP for all damage done via their spotting. That can generate enormous amounts of cash. Then, once the tide of battle turns in their team's favor, they can sneak in and murder enemy artillery. Their normally weak guns do just fine against those soft targets.
These two statements are contradictory ;-) In one you admit there's no hope and in the other, you say you've seen hope first hand. I try each battle to influence where people go, and it never ceases to amaze me with or without arty, that people are just pre-disposed where they are going to go. Oh sure, sometimes they will do what I ask, but I feel iike the majority of the time, they would have went there anyway. I like to think that I'm an above average arty player and as I'm invested up to T7 arty, as well as grinding French & german to T5, so I'm predisposed to keep it in the game. I do think there is a world of differnce between a competent & average arty player and I like to have the challenge of impacting battles just like I do in a real tank. I do wish they would limit arty to 2 players to make it possible to make an agressive move w/out risk of losing everything. 4 or 5 arties is just ridiculous.
They aren't. The first applies to battles with artillery, and second to battles without. People behave differently, and are influenced/rallied more easily, in the arty-free environment. Probably because they aren't shaking in fear of death strikes from above. *shrug* Anecdotal evidence, from both of us, is equally useful. :) A cap of 2 per match is tolerable. A cap of 0 per match is perfect. :)
I could do a cap of 2. I don't think three is awful, but I like 2, in that for the most part, there are about 3 avenues of approach, so even with each arty covering an approach, one approach should be arty free, and at most a tank is going to take 2 arty shots while tracked, but that would require lots of coordination and some luck. EDIT: on the premium tank front, whats the best generator? I've been tempted, since I play enough it might be worth it, and feels less like throwing money away with a subscription, in that I get to keep the tank.
What type of vehicles do you normally like to drive/do best in? Do you prefer higher tier, middle tier, or lower tier battles?
